iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

[ididjaustralia]

Peter Lister wrote:

PS: should that be ngalapalmirrinydja ??

I think ngalapalmirriydja is correct because the verb form "ga:ma" (to carry) is transitive, so when speaking of the old people carrying message sticks, ngalapalmirriy makes sense. A bit like "Guandhu ga:ma..." or "Bitayu ga:ma..." etc.

Guan

[Peter Lister]

OK, 'cos I thought it must have been ngalapal-mirr-nydja, literally old-with-emphasis - but this is showing how long it's been since I've done this. I recall -nydja and there is probably also -ydja as well - thanks again Guan - sorry if I've dulled the thread guys.

OK, time for a gopi, then back to the translating : )

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Bita

[ididjaustralia]

I guess it helps to see the written language as it is much easier than listening to it!

Yeah, it can get confusing. Ngalapal or ngalapalmirri means old people in Dhuwala', or in Dhuwal', they'd say ngalapalmirr.

There is a tiny difference in sound when hearing ngalapalmirri and ngalapalmirriy, the former meaning old people in Dhuwala' (ie. Gupapuyngu) as indicated before and the later meaning the old people as subject (as in subject-object) in Dhuwal' (ie. Djambarrpuyngu). Gets a bit confusing when there is code mixing amongst speakers.

Guan

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[martin]

You're not dulling anything Peter. It is great to see a bit of the structure
of the language. I may pick up another couple of words like this
Martin

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http://www.fluiditj.com

[Peter Lister]

End of part 1;

"Balanday nguli lakarram' "knowledge"....ga dhuwal yolngu knowledge da:al, mirrithirri da:al, da:al, da:al, eh ?"

Balanda usually say "knowledge", and this Yolngu knowledge is strong, very strong, strong, eh.

Heh Randy, you want to jump into this and have a go too ?? - You're matha must be better than mine.....

Part 2 get's better !

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Bita

[ididjaustralia]

Part 2 is a big one to transcribe. And Galitju talks faster too!

Guan

[Peter Lister]

Yow, but it's rich with content !

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Bita

[kakadekick]

Wow! I've just finished watching these videos. Well, it's really hard to translate.
I've noticed one word, which doesn't appear in the comments:
lundu (friend)
Yeah, what a contribution to translate more than 10min of speaking!

Nhä matha dhuwala? Dhuwa or Yirritja? Yol ngayi yäku?


Djutjutj

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Anthony

[Peter Lister]

Hi Anthony, et al,

according to Guan's little blurb on Youtube, he's Gumatj - which means he's Yirritja, but as Guan noted a few posts back, he's swapping between Dhuwala and Dhuwal - Dhuwala is Yirritja and Dhuwal is Dhuwa. Sometimes it's easy to tell between the two because of the presence or absence of the final letter ( or sound) but other times the words for each are totally different - as alluded to by Guan.

There are something like 8 or 9 "languages", some of which you will no doubt be aware (Dhuwal, Dhuwala, Djinang, Dhangu, Dhay'yi, etc) each comprising several "dialects". Some languages are Dhuwa and some are Yirritja, some contain a mixture of dialects, both Dhuwa and Yirritja. Dhuwal speakers include Djapu, Marrangu, Datiwuy, Djambarrpuyngu and Liyagalawumirr while Dhuwala include clans like Gupapuyngu, Gumatj, Madarrpa, Manggalili for example. Gupapuyngu is the main dialect taught through CDU. Each "dialect is associated with clan estates and clan groups, so they form a part of a groups' and an individuals' identity and for that reason many Yolngu refer to them as languages in their own right. For that reason, using Yolngu languages should be done with respect and care not to offend those whom are the rightful owners of their language, so this forum is a good place to discover and explore such matters but not a place for indulging ourselves in a disrespectful fashion.

I suppose this post should really be in the languages section ???

Quite a number of visitors to AL have now been "adopted" - which essentially is a convenient method of us fitting-in and for Yolngu to feel more comfortable having a stranger in their midst. The protocols for behaviour are clearly defined and when one of us arrives on the scene it's awkward for people to know how to relate to us as we aren't a part of their kinship system. So the best thing is to put us somewhere - hence we get "adopted" and usually with that comes an appropriate name and some responsibilities and expectations that we'll play by their rules. Which I think is pretty fair. Now it is wrong for people to then go around calling themselves by these names outside of that environment. Because while this name has been conferred upon us it's really an honorific and it never really is our name. As many of you are also aware, there is a "skin" system - one of the ways of further dividing things at a kinship level beyond just Dhuwa or Yirritja. Once you are "adopted" this means you also have a skin-name (malk) and some people like to refer to themselves by this also. Ethically, it's fraught with danger - just impolite really 'cos, as I said, it's a method of convenience really and not much more. Yolngu usually don't address each other by their personal names - in fact, many use their chosen English name or their malk or some other kin term equivalent to 'brother' or 'mother's brother' for example.

Occasions where it can be useful and respectful include, for example, when Guan posted something recently honouring that well-known, recently deceased yidaki player. He referred to him by his skin-name, (in this case Balang) and therefore avoided using a personal name and causing offence. This is one way Yolngu refer to someone recently deceased also. Another is to use one of their many other (and usually not so widely known) personal names.

Having said that though, there are some Yolngu that are pretty relaxed about such things and see that this is all going some way to greater understandings, but we should keep in mind that names, like everything else have connections with the ancestral past, are linked to clan groups and country and therefore, while conferred upon an individual, they actually belong to many people. Names are usually cycled over and over through many generations.

When you see my name Peter written as Bita - that's not a Yolngu name - that's just the way many Yolngu pronounce my name Peter; Bita and Guano are "yolnguized" versions of our non-Yolngu names if you like. As there are several Peter's here that post frequently I thought it might help to recognize who is who quicker if I used Bita instead.

OK, didn't mean to ramble then but wanted to make a few clear points if we're going down this road.

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Bita

[ididjaustralia]

Peter Lister wrote:

... Bita and Guano are "yolnguized" versions of our non-Yolngu names if you like. As there are several Peter's here that post frequently I thought it might help to recognize who is who quicker if I used Bita instead.

Hep, Bita is much easier

"Guan" becomes something else in Arnhem Land. I've been called Gowan, Kuwan (more like Kuan), Wan, One Dollar...

[Peter Lister]

Yow Guwan, yolku rra ?

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Bita

[ididjaustralia]

Almost there

A couple of very minor points. I would make the corrections to:

Balandaydja nguli lakaram knowledge... yo dhuwal Yolnguw knowledge da:l mirithirr da:l mirithirr da:l... da:l mirithirr eh?

Peter Lister wrote:

"Balanday nguli lakarram' "knowledge"....ga dhuwal yolngu knowledge da:al, mirrithirri da:al, da:al, da:al, eh ?"

Guan

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[ididjaustralia]

kakadekick wrote:

I've noticed one word, which doesn't appear in the comments: lundu (friend)

Hey Anthony,

I'm glad those books have been useful to you! You should have a good understanding of the basics now

I didn't hear lundu though, where does it appear in the story? Is it in Part 1 or Part 2?

Keep up the good learning!

Oh... here's a pic of Andrew Galitju with yidaki. He was proudly showing me his turtle spears in his shed which is he famous for when I noticed a couple of yidaki in the corner. They were made for use rather than for sale and one has an airplane check-in luggage sticker on it too!

Guan

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