iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

[ididjaustralia]

SeriousChris wrote:

At the World Wide Fund for nature where I work, we do this sort of thing all the time: creating quality labels for ethical and environmental standards. What is of paramount importance for the success of such labels is a) that there are clearly defined and written down sets of standards, a) that there is an independent controlling organ, and b) that the board is composed of actors of all steps of the chain, from the primary producers to the final retailers and that the standards are accepted by all involved parties. The iDIDJ guild in its past and present form did not meet these basic requirements for an independent labelling institution. That does not mean that iDIDJ can't take a leading role in establishing such a thing but once it's established, it has to be able to walk on its own feet.

Hey Christian,

Good to get your feedback on this with positive suggestions. Do we need a label or is this what is needed in the didgeridoo industry? I think your first 2 points are good ones, but with the third one I doubt that there would ever be a board where everyone from producers to retailers agree to standards.

As far as I am aware, there is no-one else doing the sort of work Colin suggested other than iDIDJ Australia. The approach that has been taken is really about taking the lead and creating awareness and public education campaigns, not about creating a label. The awareness work is coming along and is starting to have broad-scale reach. At some stage, what has been established and achieved by iDIDJ Australia would need to be taken up a step or two, and that would be done through the collaboration of key stakeholders especially on the government side.

Guan

_________________
iDIDJ Australia - Didgeridoo Cultural Hub
E-mail: info@ididj.com.au
Web: www.ididj.com.au
YouTube: www.youtube.com/ididjaustralia

[RawFoodGuy]

Remember that it is about more than traditional yidaki/mago - it is about re-education world-wide about Aboriginal cultural issues. The didgeridoo is an ambassador in that regard.

So the 3rd item Chris mentioned is key: "b) that the board is composed of actors of all steps of the chain, from the primary producers to the final retailers and that the standards are accepted by all involved parties"

....but I would add that the Board itself oesn't have to have all the actors, but must somehow include them in developing the standards that reach all the various levels in the production and marketing chain. Standards must embrace ALL makers and sellers, including those that make or sell non-traditional instruments. I mentioned that in some of my posts, where I had some thoughts on how to label an instrument made by someone like Ben Hicks, but also instruments made solely for decoration (approval of designs inspired by Aboriginal art to eliminate the use of actual protected designs elements).

It would be something like FDA labeling on food products, where there is a wide range of labeling standards, from natural organic at the top all the way down to canned goods laced with sugar, salt and preservatives. This approval could be displayed on labels as well as in store windows, not just websites, and marketing would create a powerful consumer/tourist or demand for products that support Aboriginal culture and rights by preferring labelled products over others.

_________________
RFG

www.RawFoodLife.com
www.PlanetaryHarmonics.com (to come)
www.AdventuresMarketing.com

[ididjaustralia]

RawFoodGuy wrote:

...but I would add that the Board itself oesn't have to have all the actors, but must somehow include them in developing the standards that reach all the various levels in the production and marketing chain. Standards must embrace ALL makers and sellers, including those that make or sell non-traditional instruments. I mentioned that in some of my posts, where I had some thoughts on how to label an instrument made by someone like Ben Hicks, but also instruments made solely for decoration (approval of designs inspired by Aboriginal art to eliminate the use of actual protected designs elements). It would be something like FDA labeling on food products, where there is a wide range of labeling standards, from natural organic at the top all the way down to canned goods laced with sugar, salt and preservatives. This approval could be displayed on labels as well as in store windows, not just websites, and marketing would create a powerful consumer/tourist or demand for products that support Aboriginal culture and rights by preferring labelled products over others.

This is all interesting stuff. The issue with the didgeridoo, however, under your proposed scheme, is that because of the didgeridoo's global relevance as far as production and sales are concerned, any authority would need to act across national boundaries. Is there any existing scheme that we can look at and compare? It is difficult enough for 2 governments to agree to, for example, a Free Trade Agreement (FTA)... imagine governments, producers and retailers across the globe agreeing to anything, especially something that arouses as much passion as the didgeridoo (for us freaks anyway)

Specialist advice would be required at some stage, and I have contacts in the legal and intellectual property sector that would be happy to look into this. But even they won't be enough... this really is a multi-disciplinary effort to get it right...

Guan

_________________
iDIDJ Australia - Didgeridoo Cultural Hub
E-mail: info@ididj.com.au
Web: www.ididj.com.au
YouTube: www.youtube.com/ididjaustralia

[RawFoodGuy]

ididjaustralia wrote:

This is all interesting stuff. The issue with the didgeridoo, however, under your proposed scheme, is that because of the didgeridoo's global relevance as far as production and sales are concerned, any authority would need to act across national boundaries. Is there any existing scheme that we can look at and compare? It is difficult enough for 2 governments to agree to, for example, a Free Trade Agreement (FTA)... imagine governments, producers and retailers across the globe agreeing to anything, especially something that arouses as much passion as the didgeridoo (for us freaks anyway) Specialist advice would be required at some stage, and I have contacts in the legal and intellectual property sector that would be happy to look into this. But even they won't be enough... this really is a multi-disciplinary effort to get it right... Guan

I think of it more as an international marketing problem rather than a legislative one that would involve legal complexities like International law (food labelling is a legal issue, but I was just using that as a model for the various levels of labels).

A standard backed by Aboriginal communities would be educational, building awareness and educating the public. This would build consumer and tourist demand for approved products. Perhaps a better example would be from the environmental or green movement wordwide. More and more products labeled as green are being demanded by consumers aroudn the world because they want to support sustainable technologies and lifestyles. People go out of their way today to recycle their garbage, not because there is a law requiring it but because they've been educated and become aware of the issues and want to make a difference.

An aboriginal trade association that would develop such standards and labeling could use the fees for membership and approval applications to create a public awareness campaign that over time would create a demand for ethical products. Tourists visiting Australia, or on the internet, could then choose to shop at a store displaying the logo in the window, and products so labeled, instead of a store down the street without the logo. Competitive pressures would encourage the store owner down the street to buy ethical products instead of "reproductions" and such in order to compete with the approved products and shops. Eventually, control of non-approved products would be achieved not directly, by legislation, but indirectly (without legal complications) just by consumer demand. This would eventually create support and revenue (thru fees and royalties) for Aboriginal communities even from non-traditional artists, manufacturers and retailers.

Instead of the law requiring standards, the market would embrace them. The market, people voting with their dollars, is even more powerful in many cases than a law.

_________________
RFG

www.RawFoodLife.com
www.PlanetaryHarmonics.com (to come)
www.AdventuresMarketing.com

[kdidj]

All of this brings you back to the definitions of authentic and didgeridoo! Without clearcut classifications any attempt at regulating the trade would be useless.

_________________
www.kdidj.com
www.myspace.com/kylemaplesden

[flyangler18]

If we are indeed taking our cues from the environmental/green movement, it is small businesses/dealers that sell top-quality instruments of the highest cultural integrity that are really in the most powerful positions to catalyze some change in buyer's habits. It was the activist/educational spirit behind the movement to organic and sustainable living that caught fire, rather than legislation like the Kyoto Protocols and other such measures. Communities with progressive leadership here in the States boast high percentage of locally produced food and recycling programs, mostly through education and outreach programs. These provide a much larger push for participation rather than legislative bodies themselves.

Using the food analogy is useful, RFG-- European organic standards are considerably higher than that of the US, so much so that USDA certified organics can't even be sold in Europe as organic!

_________________
www.jdidj.com

[RawFoodGuy]

flyangler18 wrote:

Using the food analogy is useful, RFG-- European organic standards are considerably higher than that of the US, so much so that USDA certified organics can't even be sold in Europe as organic!

ROFL!!!

_________________
RFG

www.RawFoodLife.com
www.PlanetaryHarmonics.com (to come)
www.AdventuresMarketing.com

[flyangler18]

Quote:

ROFL!!!

?

Am I mistaken? I know that that the differing standards between US NOP, EU Standards and JAS are making international trade of organics difficult.

_________________
www.jdidj.com

[RawFoodGuy]

flyangler18 wrote:

Quote: ROFL!!! ? Am I mistaken? I know that that the differing standards between US NOP, EU Standards and JAS are making international trade of organics difficult.

ROFL = "Rolling On the Floor Laughing"

That is true, international standards are complex because of the differing LAWS in each country. However, I am referring to those not as a legal model to follow, but only for an analogy to the way food labeling creates a range of labels, from the most organic down to the least natural, most commercial products. For us, the standards would go from the most traditional yidaki/mago instruments down to the most commercial made for the tourist trade, but meeting some kind of loose standards for some kind of ethical responsibility, at the very least having harvesting methods and designs approved so that they don't misuse traditional sacred designs or rape the environment.

We don't want to deal with legal or legislative complexities, and they would not solve the problem, only create more beaurocracy. I am suggesting a marketing solution using the power of consumer demand and competitive pressures through education and awareness building campaigns to create a demad by consuemrs for ethical products.

_________________
RFG

www.RawFoodLife.com
www.PlanetaryHarmonics.com (to come)
www.AdventuresMarketing.com

[Aboriginal Arts Ltd]

Quote:

All of this brings you back to the definitions of authentic and didgeridoo! Without clearcut classifications any attempt at regulating the trade would be useless.

I believe the most important classification is one of transparency, honesty and integrity. This should be the foundation upon which any new association is formed.
Lets take www.dot_con_yidaki.com as an example. The owner clearly advertises for sale a collection of didgeridoos which by the art and type are evidently not traditional Aboriginal yidaki but the owner sells them as such. The owner would not be allowed to join the proposed global didgeridoo association unless he either replaces his stock for true yidaki or mago, or he correctly advertises his stock as non-traditional didgeridoo.

The best way of dealing with unethical dealers is to bring them in rather than exclude them. Re-education is for everyone at every level.

_________________
Colin
www.aboriginalarts.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=iDIDJUK
+44 20 8123 1575

[RawFoodGuy]

Aboriginal Arts Ltd wrote:

The best way of dealing with unethical dealers is to bring them in rather than exclude them. Re-education is for everyone at every level.

YES!

RawFoodGuy wrote:

Standards must embrace ALL makers and sellers, including those that make or sell non-traditional instruments. I mentioned that in some of my posts, where I had some thoughts on how to label an instrument made by someone like Ben Hicks, but also instruments made solely for decoration (approval of designs inspired by Aboriginal art to eliminate the use of actual protected designs elements).

It is particularly important when you remember that what I I am suggesting is NOT a bureaucracy or legislative approach, but an educational and marketing-style approach. The wider the net we cast the more fish we can bring in. By creating a process for even tourist-trade products to interact successfully, it strengthens the market and awareness of traditional products as well as Aboriginal culture and ethical issues.

Aboriginal communities participating in this association would decide what the standards are for every level of participation, for every person involved in any aspect of creating, promoting, teaching or selling Aboriginal-inspired artifacts or instruments. Anyone involved at any level of production or performance would have an opportunity to partiucipate. Since it is not a legal body it only needs to be self consistent within it's own internal ethical guidelines to the best of its ability - it's stregnth will come eventually from building consumer awareness, mot necessarily from total participation or consensus with all Aboriginal clans - though as the awareness grew and became a significant marketing factor, it would in all likelihood encourage wide participation.

If this vision is truly and successfully fully implemented, it would even be possible to interact with the most unlikely market segments, such as Indonesian manufacturers, by offering them a way to get some sort of low level of approval, say just for using an approved design and including some educational material, such as a hang tang, that indicates, "Some of the profit of this non-traditional didgeridoo-like instrument goes to support the Aboriginal people and culture that inspired it's design."

_________________
RFG

www.RawFoodLife.com
www.PlanetaryHarmonics.com (to come)
www.AdventuresMarketing.com

[martin]

Some great suggestions here. In particular the grass roots type approach being suggested by RFG. It would require more honest direct action by afficionados all over the world, educating and informing both sellers and buyers.

One thing that needs to be taken into account however and that to my mind is missing in the comparison to the natural food market, is the basic motivation for this regulation. In the natural food market there is a certain underlying idea - that we want to be physically healthy. This is something that is very tangible and that people want to get behind. However there is also the other motivation, less easily defined, which is that of ethics.

In the current discussion of authenticity, we are looking more at a discussion of "spiritual" or social well being and ethics. We are interested in authenticity because we are interested in the origins of the instrument, in the culture from which it comes. We appreciate the way in which this culture has given us this instrument and we wish that the true custodians of this instrument receive their dues. How does one turn these facts into something that can convince the larger population to make the right choice when looking for an instrument?

There are also several (three?) markets for yidaki/mago. Musicians, people fascinated by the sound but not necessarily musicians, tourists. It is probably in the second group that things are easier to regulate and
where it is easier to educate as the people in this group are likely to be well-informed and interested in knowing the true origin of this fascinating sound and the culture behind it. I guess in the end this is probably thee sector that is likely to be the biggest market for yidaki/mago.

The market of musicians is smaller, and with a little education any musician will realise that if they wish to use the instrument to its fullest then they will need to confront the challenging trad techniques at some point and consequently will need the appropriate instruments.

The most difficult market to regulate is the tourist one, with appropriate education though progress can be made. Many tourists who travel all the way to australia are interested in getting and abosrbing/buying some genuine souvenir of australia - on the matter of didge they are just not well informed although well meaning.

In the end though, I believe that one needs input from the makers of traditional instruments, as the ethical trade should be such that they benefit and they are certainly the best people to define clearly boundaries of what is or isn't authentic.
If also there maybe some degrees of authenticity in the case where the tradition of didge playing and making is more recent..

I guess there is no concrete proposal in these ruminations but I hope they add something to the discussion.

regards,
Martin

Martin

_________________
http://www.fluiditj.com

[RawFoodGuy]

Re-read some of my earlier post comparing the concept to the Green Movement. It is like a cross between ethical concerns of the green movement and a multi-level set of labeling standards similar to the food business. The food thing is just an example of how to label different levels of quality, but that is as far as the metaphor was intended to go.

I believe that these ruminations and ramblings will indeed inspire something, else why spend so much time writing

_________________
RFG

www.RawFoodLife.com
www.PlanetaryHarmonics.com (to come)
www.AdventuresMarketing.com

[stockie]

I feel the question of authenticity is down to cultural awareness of everyone involved from indigionous Australians to none Australians maker, seller and end user. from the point of view of antiques for example there are many copies of things that are older and hold up as a niece piece all by them selves and culturally just as important such as clocks, jewlery etc but at the end of the day they are still copies looking and feeling the same but not origional.

I think when it comes to the didgeridoo every individual has there own opinion, on ownership etc as to what the didgeridoo is, and is used for. I feel that most europeans have a slightly different outlook on didgeridoo/YIdaki/Mago than other cultures inc that of Australia.

I think it has been adopted in its own right by various people all over Australia and the world. as long as we remeber and respect the instruments origins and cultural identity we can then move forward and create our own extenstion of this as I have done in my own playing.

I personally prefer having a didgeridoo/yidaki/mago made by a craftsman who has spent time learning there craft taking into acount issues, such as the enviromental aspects of making the instrument, spending years refining there craft and producing top quality instruments.

To me having a number of Yolngu instruments in my collection is very important as this is where it all started in my mind (However I do have a couple of good split wood instruments one made by myself does this make it less of a didgeridoo), but also as the instrument has spread world wide we should embrace this and move on with the development of the instrument as a whole, its players, its world wide cultre whilst rembering and embracing its cultural heritage and history, and those that are in the know educating those that dont.

[alft]

ididjaustralia wrote:

Does a didgeridoo that was made /or paintanded by any Australian Indigenous person qualify as authentic?

Hello,
I think from the point of a Balanda person, who is very interested and wants to buy an authentic instrument, it is not enough, that it was made made /or painted by any Australian Indigenous person. I want to buy an instrument made and paintet from person which produces the didgerioo of own tradition and kultur.
But I think, it not the thing and the right of an balanda person like me, to say what is authentic ore not for an Australian Indigenous person.

with kind regards
Alfred