iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

[mahoran]

I, personally, am against labelling didgeridoos as authentic or original as this is to commercially persuade the buyers to approach the product. As before, these terms can be applied only to non-traditional sticks since trad ones do not need that. So it comes down to whether it is a didgeridoo or yidaki(mago).
Generally speaking, all the sticks that are made by balanda, or indineous Autralian without cultural connection can be called as didgeridoos and should not be labelled as authentic as this is misinformation. But there are different aspects of that I think. An Indonesian stick with 'dot painting on it' is stealing in my eyes. I see that as a legal issue..this is like a fake Nike on the market and needs to be legally treated.
Have Aboriginal people done anything concerning this issue, legally I mean?

Maybe this can be a drastic solution..?

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no matter how thin you chop, it has always two faces!!!

[ididjaustralia]

mahoran wrote:

I, personally, am against labelling didgeridoos as authentic or original as this is to commercially persuade the buyers to approach the product. As before, these terms can be applied only to non-traditional sticks since trad ones do not need that. So it comes down to whether it is a didgeridoo or yidaki(mago).

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Could you elaborate or phrase the idea in a different way? Thanks mate.

mahoran wrote:

An Indonesian stick with 'dot painting on it' is stealing in my eyes. I see that as a legal issue..this is like a fake Nike on the market and needs to be legally treated. Have Aboriginal people done anything concerning this issue, legally I mean?

Well, there are some issues there for sure. Firstly, if you see 'dot painting' on didgeridoos, be VERY sceptical! Instruments made and painted by Aboriginal Australians from the 'Top End' of Australia generally do not use 'dots' in their artwork, and when they do, the art does not resemble Central Australian or Western Desert art which is really the primary style of artwork most people associate with 'dots'. Some Arnhem Land artists use dots extensively like Nyapanyapa on select iDIDJ Australia instruments. Also Badikupa, Djalu etc. As you can see, there is only superficial resemblance to Central Australian art.

The Nike name and logo are trademarked, so anyone using it without licence or permission will get into legal trouble. You cannot, however, put a trademark on 'dots' or Aboriginal art. Unless you are making an exact copy of a particular piece of Aboriginal art and reproducing it in any manner on any medium, you cannot be prosecuted. Those that have been prosecuted took images of Aboriginal art from books and reproduced those images on carpets without permission. That is plainly and simply a breach in copyright.

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iDIDJ Australia - Didgeridoo Cultural Hub
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[yidakimirr.com]

i think that Mahoran is asking for some kind of certification when you buy an instrument coming from the top end..

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tu-pa trun trun!
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Mattheus

[itsadidj]

I stand firm in my original thoughts regarding labeling (which I posted on the orig ididj forum page). I feel that Guan's Didgeridoo Labeling system could still prove to be an excellent way to categorize this instrument if it could somehow find its way into the market ( still racking my brain on that one...). Its short, sweet, to the point and would be a great way to inform the customer prior to purchase. It may even in a small way remind those who are choosing to sell "authentic traditional" instruments (that obviously are not) that they are misleading the customers (I doubt it, but you never know). Additionally, this labeling system is great because it does not in any way mention the quality of the instruments. It does as it should - merely points out and breaks down quickly and easily the specific origins of the instruments. The customer then can decide how they choose to spend their money (because we can't change that) and who they wish to support. As far as certificates go - well that would be taking it a step further - not necessary within the labeling system but an added bonus I guess. One that the vendor could provide if they so choose (as ididj will! : )). If you were looking for a certificate to show whether you've just bought a yidaki or a mago - well - that's another issue.

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Chris

[Darth Ak-sar-ben]

Gives me pause to wonder now about something. How many Aboriginal craftsmen make didgeridoos, whether Mago, Yidaki or otherwise? Few dozen? Couple of hundred? Or, are there thousands of bush art craftsmen (and women) who are cutting down the eucalyptus trees to make into some sort of hollow stick. Since there are many tribes as I understand it, there could conceivably be many individuals in the tribes that are gifted, or rather "given" the task of creating a didgeridoo.

Clearly if one sells a stick to the unsuspecting buyer as an original, true to life, Yidaki made by Master "Yoda" (just a name for inference) but it was crafted by Obe-Wan instead (who also is a native bushman, but just makes didgeridoos... follow with me here), isn't that as much of a problem as the white guy in the states selling dot art didgeridoos that are made of teak coming from Indonesia AND inferring that they are genuine didgeridoos from Australia?

Looks more gray than black and white.

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Cheers!
Vern

"You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

http://www.vernsdidj.com

[rodeo]

i also agree with the labelling method put forward by Guan. but the question to me is how do we make it happen. Do we speak to the department of tourism the government? how can we get the ball rolling?

[minima]

Hi,
What do you think about this pages....
I think this is a very big problem...
Why they selling this tasteless crap?
8( I don't understand what this makers thinking

http://www.eddyhalat-didges.com/e_didgeframe.html
http://www.eddyhalat-didges.com/e_artframe.htm

Another....
http://www.didgeridooshop.ch/didgeridoos/byguidohuwyler/index.php
http://www.didgeridoomundstueck.de/

Sorry for my english but I can't explain my thoughts about that.
I like your discussions guys....

l

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traditional way

[alft]

Hi minima,
I think, that Eddy Halat and he´s Didges ore silicon mouthpiece not are the problem, because Eddy never said, he made Yedakis ore Yolungu-Art. Eddy-Halat-Didges are european made Didges and they are very good. Djalu was a guest of Eddy some years ago and I don´t know, he said anything against Eddy and he´s Didges.
silicon mouthpices are not a bad things ore "tasteless crap" - I think words like this are not good fore our discussion.
I think the problem are not european ore other didgeridoomakers, when its clear what they are doing. The problem are Didgeridoos from Asia ore other but not from the Arnthemland, but selled as orginal.


So long
Alfred

Sorry for my english

minima wrote:

Hi, What do you think about this pages.... I think this is a very big problem... Why they selling this tasteless crap? 8( I don't understand what this makers thinking http://www.eddyhalat-didges.com/e_didgeframe.html http://www.eddyhalat-didges.com/e_artframe.htm Another.... http://www.didgeridooshop.ch/didgeridoos/byguidohuwyler/index.php http://www.didgeridoomundstueck.de/ Sorry for my english but I can't explain my thoughts about that. I like your discussions guys.... l

[Darth Ak-sar-ben]

I agree with alft on this thinking. Didgeridoos made and sold by craftsmen that are not from Arnhem land are not the real problems. People like Ben Hicks, in Golden, Colorado, Ant Scott in the UK, John Madill in Eastern US (Maryland) little bit more about John Madill (this will help explain and differentiate sincere builders)

To sell a didgeridoo from Asia or Asia/Pacific area that is sold under the flag as a genuine Aboriginal crafted instrument is misleading. There are also numerous (THOUSANDS) of didgeridoos that come from Australia that have been worked in factories that are are of little authenticity other than the fact that they did come form Australia.

Modern non-Aboriginal crafters of Didgeridoo made from aspen, walnut, birch, locust, and other woods are generally very proud of their handy work and would never sell it under the pretense that it is of some other origin.

Crafters that make the art inspired Didgeridoos, the Magos, and Yidaki from Arnhem land, have a lot fewer instruments and these instruments are well explained and documented in the sellers website.

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Cheers!
Vern

"You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

http://www.vernsdidj.com

[minima]

you are right...
eddie's didj's, is a smaller problem...
I did'nt tell that ha selling as traditional yidaki...

I mean didj making over all that when he and others(non traditional makers) selling didj's (not as authentic or traditional) he takes a chance a bit from the aboriginal businesses...

We have to show the way to the right sellers.

Cheers

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traditional way

[minima]

I personally have made a few sticks, but for my self, I would never try to sell them.
Surely they making good instruments and is a good earning for the craftsmen that are not from Arnhem land. It is not a question about selling as original is about selling overall. They have to keep in mind
("when I'm selling one of my handy works is one less for a traditional maker")
why they not leading the consumer to the right place like ididj or buku larrngay or other great sources of finding a real good instrument.

Oh.. its hard to explain in eng., I hope you understand what I mean...
cheers

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traditional way

[alft]

Hello

Dididgeridoos or yedakis from traditonell craftsmen are one thing and didgeridoos from european or other didgeridoo-makers are another thing. But socalled traditionell didgeridoos frome Asia or australian industrial made didgeridoos are a big problem.
When I buy a didgeridoo from Eddy Halat or another nontraditionell craftsmen, then because I love the art, they made it, or because I can say him what a digeridoo I want to have. A Yirdaki from djalu or a mago from one of the traditionell craftsmen is an other thing, another feeling, another playing - so I see no competition between them. If I want a Eddy Halat didge, I want a Eddy Halat and not another. And if I want an traditionell an orginal Instrument I want am Yerdaki from a traditionell craftsman and not from Asia or australian didgerioo industrie.
That is what is what I mean.
Good day made
Alfred

The selfmade didgeridoos on your website are looking like Arnthemland- Yirdakis ore magos. I think that some Yolungu artist can see a problem in your selfmade and selfpaintet art.

[minima]

Hi,
I don't think that my selfmade didj's are a problem, I made them for myself and not for sale to anyone as traditional or whatever... I made them with full respect of traditional craftsmen.
I buy only traditional didjeridu thats the most important to me...

You are right at the point that the most biggest problems are the thousands of fake traditional didj's from Asia.
they make it for souvenir

cheers

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traditional way

[brian47]

I own a didge, its made from mallee gum by a white fella and its sounds great. It is a good quality instrument, but I knew it wasnt authentic traditional at the time of purchase, thanks to an honest retailer. This I feel is where everything lies in the authentication issue. HONESTY!! If a retailer gets a didge that is sold to him by a maker or wholesaler as an authentic traditional piece then he will pass that information on to the customer, (but what if the maker or wholesaler has been dishonest). I am in favour of some form of labelling system like the CI index because I feel that if it is set up right then the buyer will be able to make an informed choice in the didge he buys, whether its authentic traditional or not. Of course there would be teething problems with setting something like this up but I feel if the co-operation is there from the maker to the retailer then any problems would be kept to a minimum. Keep those shonkies out.
cheers everybody

[mahoran]

minima wrote:

Hi, I don't think that my selfmade didj's are a problem, I made them for myself and not for sale to anyone as traditional or whatever... I made them with full respect of traditional craftsmen. cheers

Well done buddy, there are not many like you. Guys making didges and pricing them as high as a Djalu instrument. we have the problem of junk sticks from Asia as well as those pretending to be respectful against Yolgnu yet misusing them. Everybody is after something.!!!

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no matter how thin you chop, it has always two faces!!!