iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

[Ahaw]

Hi there !

I hope I'm posting in the good category...

Does anyone around here have heard of the Bodeidei Camp ?
That French guy, François Giner, went and met people from the Ngklabon clan in the 80's.
He became good friend with some of them and wanted to establish a camp for Occidentals to come along and discover Ngklabon's culture.
This suited George, one of the clan's elders, who gave him some land at Bodeidei.
François Giner recently published a book called "En Terre Aborigène" in French (traduction : "In Aboriginal Land"), which I have read a few months ago, and that tells his first steps in aboriginal land, and the beginning of that camp up to nowadays.
All of his intensions seem really worthy to me... Still, some French people consider that guy as a jerk who only wants to make money on the back of the Aboriginals.
I know there are often abysses between words and actions... I hope this is not the case with F.Giner's book & web-site.
I've never been to that camp and hence do not have any first hand informations.
F.Giner's detractors, on their side, do not bring any information neither (and I'm pretty sure that they became "Trad' extremists").
This is why I'm asking you guys if you have any water to bring to the rumor-mill ?

Thanks a lot !

[ididjaustralia]

I've heard of this camp but have not been on it so can't really comment, but it does sound like an interesting experience. I don't know the person who runs the camp so again can't comment and haven't heard any rumours either but I'll try to find out through countrymen here...

Guan

_________________
iDIDJ Australia - Didgeridoo Cultural Hub
E-mail: info@ididj.com.au
Web: www.ididj.com.au
YouTube: www.youtube.com/ididjaustralia

[Ahaw]

Hi Guan !

Would be great if you'd manage to gather 2nd hand infos !

_________________

[Cyril]

I'm a detractor so ....a trad extremsit .......

[GGW]

Hi there

Ok les boys embrasser vous et fait la paix ,on dirais 2 poule qui se tape a coup de woble

dup pu dup

_________________
Beleive in yirdaki power

[Cyril]

[ididjaustralia]

What are the main problems/rumours people have heard?

Guan

_________________
iDIDJ Australia - Didgeridoo Cultural Hub
E-mail: info@ididj.com.au
Web: www.ididj.com.au
YouTube: www.youtube.com/ididjaustralia

[Ahaw]

Well...
I didn't hear any feedback (appart from François Giner's interview+website+book, but thats not impartial !) until a thread was open on FranceDidgeridoo.
Cyril just said there that the camp was "bullshit" and that this guy François was making money on BlackFellas' back... (but afterwards, he edited all his posts, so it's not on the forum anymore... hope you'll excuse me for revealing that Cyril, but it really was this sentence you said that intrigued me and pushed me to investigate further on through this Ozzi forum... so it must have been said)
From what I understood, Cyril has apparently heard "too good to be true" feedbacks ... Hence deducing that this camp was only a tourist camp and didn't show BlackFella's real life.
It may be true... But I'm still waiting for him to develop that point.
On FranceDidj's topic, Secri (page3) posted a link to this forum, where I've first learnt that only French people are allowed on the camp (!!! strange !!!) and where Sof16 harshly warns eventual participants against camp's exploitation, no cultural learning and too much cleaning... even describing François Giner as some sort of guru being served by the participants...
After his post, other replied that it is true there's much cleaning to do but that it is normal for a bushcamp, and that cultural exchanges were (are) possible, but it's human to human, one has got to search for it, it is not "on the tour's plan"... Explanation that I find rather satisfying.
And... Well that's all I've heard about that camp.... And that's why I'm here asking for other informations

[ididjaustralia]

Sounds like interesting discussion, but the thing about only French people being allowed to participate in those camps is not true, I've seen advertisements around looking for participants in the NT. I'll find out more...

Guan

_________________
iDIDJ Australia - Didgeridoo Cultural Hub
E-mail: info@ididj.com.au
Web: www.ididj.com.au
YouTube: www.youtube.com/ididjaustralia

[ididjaustralia]

I spoke to some countrymen from around the area and they did not say anything bad about the tours or François, and if anything, seemed to be happy about it. Having said that, my sample group was not large so I might have missed dissenting voices...

I think with anything, there is always going to be both good and negative opinions, and especially in the case of successful businesses there will be criticisms that Aboriginal people are being exploited. I would prefer to see Aboriginal people run their own businesses and for them to retain full economic benefits from their businesses, however, this is not always possible in which case partnership arrangements would be the way to go where someone or an established business with the experience, administration and infrastructure capability and enthusiasm can form sustainable and successful joint ventures.

Guan

_________________
iDIDJ Australia - Didgeridoo Cultural Hub
E-mail: info@ididj.com.au
Web: www.ididj.com.au
YouTube: www.youtube.com/ididjaustralia

[Ahaw]

Hi Guan,

Thanks for your investigation !
So Giner's camp is not as bad as some may say in the end...

Concerning Aboriginal business, well of course it's better if it's ran by aborigines.
In this case, I think it's more of a cross-cultural business helping White European "Fellas" to know more about Aboriginal culture, and in my mind this helps even more than money business.
I know plenty of people around me in France who do not know anything about Australian Aborigines... They often call them "Arborigènes" ("people who live in trees" !!!).
If people like Djalu can make his own business, it's because the didjeridu has been exported in Occidental countries (+Japan) > cross-culture, exportation of a cultural instrument.
If people come back to France (or other) telling everywhere how well Aborigines dance and sing and paint, well this may developp yet another cross-cultural business (painting collections for ex.)
So this camp seems to me to be more planting seeds for "direct" business than taking away business from Black Fellas...

By the way, nothing to do directly with the subjet...
In my town are two passionate collectors of Aboriginal Central-Desert paintings.
They are exposing right now in my town's mediatheque.
Saturday night, I bumped into two young Ozzies on holiday and told them there was Australian art exposed at the mediatheque.
They seemed curious, and when I said it was Aboriginal art, they laughed in my face !!!!
Seems like Aboriginal culture and art is more appreciated outside the big island !...

_________________

[ididjaustralia]

No probs Francis, the few Aboriginal people I spoke to who know about the Bodeidei camp and who are family to the traditional land owners didn't say bad things, and I checked with whitefella council staff as well and they didn't say bad things either. It is not easy going about asking questions about someone else's business, it might look like I am spying or making trouble! But I was sensitive about it and made it clear I was only trying to learn more.

About the main criticisms, some of my own comments below:

1. White people making money on blackfellas' back

This is an interesting issue and could be discussed for days and days! I wonder what people see as the evil here: that money is being made from culture? That white people are making money rather than blackfellas? The way I see it, in reality and looking at things from a wider perspective, white people make money from white people, blackfellas make money from blackfellas, whitefellas make money from blackfellas, and believe it or not, blackfellas also make money from whitefellas! Someone I spoke to said something like "if the land owners are not happy with the financial and other arrangements, they would have found a way to create problems for the tours". So if the tours are still running, it would mean - I suspect - that the land owners are cooperating and are happy with the arrangements they have in place.

2. Cultural experiences being too touristy and not showing the real life of Aboriginal people

Yes, this can be a problem and I think the larger a tour is - and I'm talking about cultural tours generally - and the more 'mainstream' it is, there will always be a trap that experiences are too touristy. Most packaged tours are like that, 3 day events that give you a taste of culture without actually giving you very much. But then again, how much can be gained in 3 days?! A couple of travel agents in Australia and 1 overseas have been in contact with me and they want to promote and handle Djalu's Masterclass in future years, except that they want to make it 3 days because they said this is what the mass market wants, 3 days is an ideal time according to experts in the tourism industry!

3. Too much cleaning in camp

Hmmm... I guess that's the reality of a bush camp, someone has to clean, and the more hands helping the easier the job.

4. Personality of the promoter/camp manager

I've heard of some terrible cultural tours in Central Australia where the whitefella promoter makes himself a guru or spiritual leader, and participants have to obey every instruction to the point of degrading themselves in order to achieve respect and discipline. That's way extreme and I wouldn't go on a tour like that. Having said that, a promoter should have some charisma, most successful people have strong personalities and maybe that's where the problems start...

Guan

_________________
iDIDJ Australia - Didgeridoo Cultural Hub
E-mail: info@ididj.com.au
Web: www.ididj.com.au
YouTube: www.youtube.com/ididjaustralia

[Ahaw]

I totally agree ^_^

Next step will be taking a 1st hand look inside that camp !
Hope someday I'll have the time and money !
Though it's not that camp in perticular that I'm interrested in, but Aboriginal culture in general.
This camp seems to be a nice compromise between total + longtimed immersion and rapid touristy experience.
Approximate stay at the camp being counted in month(s) apparently.

_________________