dcszabi (4 days ago)
this new Memawuy Munyarryun for free!! is a real traditional in sound ,I like that style from winiwini to
dcszabi (4 days ago)
The custudians of the yirdaki is belongs to the galpu clan
dcszabi (4 days ago)
I think that every didjeridu made by an aboriginal is authentic, but The custodians of the yirdaki is belongs to the galpu clan from NE ARNHEM LAND
mahoran (4 days ago)
In order for an instrument to be authentic, it should be made by the true owners of it, namely Aboriginal people from the Top End. Unfortunately, the term authentic is widely misused to help selling mistly mass-produced instruments made by white people.
dcszabi (4 days ago)
The didjeridu came from northern australia (topEnd)Arnhem land and later expanded on the continent...
as dikarrna tells "the mago came from crocker island"
mahoran (4 days ago)
Thus, the term traditional comes pretty handy to tell such touris junk from the traditional ones. Therefore, in my opinion, an instrument painted or crafted by an indigenous Australian is NOT authentic at all. So I would call the traditional isntrumenhts from the North Arnhem land as authentic instruments where as all the rest is by non-authentic.
mahoran (4 days ago)
As being the true owners of this culture, they have therefore all the right in to have theire own slice form this big -growing -pie, firstly 1) to retrieve, maintain and protect their cultural heritage 2) to survive in theire enviroment as the yidaki production seems to be the only single way of achieveing that 3) as the 99 % off all the instrumenet are not authentic and are not made by real owvers of this culture, restricting the mass production of this sort of instruments seems plausible.
kdidj (4 days ago)
Does a didgeridoo that was made and/or painted by any Australian Indigenous person qualify as authentic?
This is an interesting question as any answers are dependent upon how one defines 'didgeridoo' and 'authentic'.
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Precisely! But swing-tags on didgeridoos in souvenir shops don't have too much space to elaborate on some of these finer points of definition. Authentic to most consumers, especially an ill-informed ones, only means one thing...
kdidj (4 days ago)
If we accept that the didgeridoo originated in the Top End of Australia, in an area where the Aboriginal Clans and Tribes have it as part of their cultural tradition, then arguably any didgeridoo made by an Indigenous Australian from elsewhere could be considered not authentic.
kdidj (4 days ago)
This is where the definition of 'didgeridoo' becomes important for, broadly speaking, it has come to describe an instrument comprised of a hollow tube which is played by vibrating the lips and producing a drone which is then affected by tongue movement, vocal accents, breathing etc.
kdidj (4 days ago)
Traditionally of course, these instruments were crafted from bamboo, pandanus trunks or termite hollowed eucalyptus stems however today a number of materials are used to create instruments one could call 'didgeridoos', including plastics, polymers, metal and wood that is manually hollowed
kdidj (4 days ago)
'Authentic' can be defined as: not false or copied; genuine; real
However if we adopt a second definition perhaps my perspective will become more clear:
'Authentic': having the origin supported by unquestionable evidence; authenticated; verified
This definition refers to 'origin', defined as: something from which anything arises or is derived; source;
mahoran (4 days ago)
By the way, though this might get little bit philosophical yet based on this definition, which I agree with, everything is authentic
As you can not produce two things identical, there will be always some random differences even if they are fabricated..
kdidj (4 days ago)
It is the reference to the origin or source which informs my view on this subject. It is understood that the didgeridoo is endemic to the Top End regions referred to above so, if we accept the definitions of 'authentic' and 'origin' stated above it would appear that instruments crafted in this region, or by Indigenous Australians from said region, would be considered authentic whereas instruments crafted elsewhere or by Indigenous Australians from other regions would not
kdidj (4 days ago)
My interest in the didgeridoo is entwined with the culture from which it derives, so authenticity to me is dependent upon the relationship any instrument has to its cultural context. These tourist type instruments you mention Guan are to me not authentic at all, but to others they may feel that as it is from Australia, and apparently crafted by an Indigenous Australian, it is an authentic piece of cultural regalia!
kdidj (4 days ago)
To each their own I suppose although because I am aware of the instruments cultural and historical background my decision may be more informed than others.
kdidj (4 days ago)
As far as intellectual and custodial rights are concerned, I feel it correct to say that the Indigenous peoples of the aforementioned Clans and Tribes who hold the didgeridoo as part of their culture should hold the rights to the instrument, or at least those instruments that can be classified as having come from these people.
kdidj (4 days ago)
We have to understand that these instruments fit into a long-standing tradition of song, stories and dance and are an integral part of the religion of the region. For this reason I believe we are not in a position to say that these people can not have the sole custodial or intellectual property rights to the didgeridoo. Afterall, without these people we wouldn't have the instrument at all!
kdidj (4 days ago)
Of course there are many facets to this debate, but I thought it best to state things as I see them and see how the discussion continues.
Kyle
tuomasky (4 days ago)
In many indiginous cultures the various instrument makers are "named" and "certified" - the group it self gives a person aproval to make these things. The approval can be gained by hard work and learning and/or the tradition goes on from son to son, mother to daughter.
I think that at this point the aboriginal communities themselves should name the persons who's job is to make yidaki's or mago's. After this they should tell this to the publick/balanda theough some person - like Guan.
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Not all cultures work the same way, and in Aboriginal Australia, I don't think this sort of system exists - not for didgeridoo anyway, or at least, does not have broad-scale application or relevance.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
I belive that aborigines should tell us what is yidaki and mago and what certainly is not. Aborigines know where this instrument traditionally originates and they certainly know what is the right instrument. I think Djalu and other elders in yolngu area should make the public statement what the yidaki is and who are the persons who have the knowledge and skills and the right to do it. Same questions could be asked from Maningrida area, Beswik area...
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Perhaps, but who would you ask? Which Aboriginal person(s)? And from where? Just as you wouldn't lump all Europeans together, or all Asians together, the same can be said for Indigenous Australians. You would surely get different opinions too depending on who you ask.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
I think what further complicates matters is the fact that even Yolngu will interchangeably call 'yidaki' both didjeridu and yidaki-- a point that some retailers have used to generically label all didjeridu 'yidaki'. Even well-meaning retailers may use this phenomenon as a justification for their actions, which only serves to deepen the divisions.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
The problem is that even in the traditional yidaki/ mago area every kid is doing instruments. Once in a while they come up with a good instrument. Maybe they should go and ask the elders what they think of it and then one could say it is the right instrument.
Back to the point. The balanda can not tell if the instrument is real yidaki/ mago. This job belongs to aboriginal elders where that type of instrument originates.
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Hmmm... interesting point!
tuomasky (4 days ago)
This is qute simple to do - you are actually doing it your self by taking footage of Larry playing the instrument and showing it is good enough to be yidaki. That video clip says that Larry thinks this instrument is a yidaki. Same thing going on with Dikkarna's videos.
To make it stronger you could ask Djalu's opinnion on various yidakis. I do not know who is the right elder conserning mago...
tuomasky (4 days ago)
Thanks again Guan for spredding the knowledge. I hope that next time you give a one week time to answer..
all the best,
tuomas
tuomasky (4 days ago)
I just realized that we had a month time for this. I just say that 500 digits is not enough space to discuss this matter. I think many of us would want to write essays - could there be another place/different way for this...
tuomas
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
We could write essays, even books! But unfortunately I won't have time to read it all, and neither would others, so please be brief and even dot points are fine.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
I was just about to post almost exactly what tuomasky said... Darned slow fingers...
Mw two cents:
White people have been accepted as part of the Aboriginal culture. Aboriginal people have been taken away from it. Labels have been falsified.
So I belive the only sure way to get an authentic Aboriginal piece of art is to meet the artist and his community.
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Maybe I could start a blog or a public discussion somewhere so that longer answers can be written? Any help in this would be appreciated, if people think it warrants looking into.
martindidge (4 days ago)
Hi Guan, If we are really interested in maintaining this discussion then it is probably necessary to create some small forum to host it. The format of the comments makes it increasingly difficult to follow the various threads of this discussion.
ididjaustralia (3 days ago)
Ok, will look into this today. I think either Yahoo! or Google will do the trick.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
Good to see so many people sharing these opinions.
Good to be participating in this discussion.
Good to see someone like Guam actually exists.
Good to see a free Yirdaki. Two of them!
Top o' the mornin' to ye,
Torval
kdidj (4 days ago)
I feel education is paramount. Misinformation rules because didgeridoo players in the past have become de facto ambassadors, spouting half-truths and fabrications about the culture from which the instrument derives!
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
That's true Kyle, but I'm also thinking about the role of retailers. It isn't just the tourist or souvenir shop that is guilty of misinformation. Some of the largest didgeridoo retailers in Australia and overseas, and some of the most prominent or most popular didgeridoo websites are guilty of the same thing.
kdidj (4 days ago)
I totally agree Guan. Perhaps the saddest thing is that many of these retailers are unaware of how inaccurate the information they put out is! There are many retailers in Australia and the US and UK that belive the drilled teak instruments they are selling are in fact Aboriginally crafted termite hollowed instruments!
kdidj (4 days ago)
As I've said elsewhere, the internet is a great tool but unfortunately as it is unedited there is a propensity for misinformation to breed. A shame really.
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Yup, that's really sad... but there are also those others who are compelled to twist the truth for their economic benefit. I read a newsletter today which made me almost throw up... so many half truths that put together, might seem believable, especially when they claim to have thousands of satisfied customers. Urrggghhhh...
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
I know that newsletter....urgh. Such retailers become so good at spin, that they begin to believe their own manipulations and half-truths, if they even know the difference!
martindidge (4 days ago)
Indeed. I had a GOOD look at the scientific papers that were supposed to support these stories. There are some questionable sampling procedures in the paper itself, but there is quite a stretch from the findings in the paper to arrive at the nonsense told in the newsletter...
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
We see eye to eye on this one, Kyle. It is particularly sad when you consider the great democratic force that is the internet- and the resultant misinformation that pops up under the idea that 'everyone can be published'.
kdidj (4 days ago)
Look at all the 'didgeridoo healing' claims that tie it to non-existant Aboriginal practices in order to authenticate it.
The more we can educate those interested in the instrument the easier it will become to discuss the true issues of authenticity and ownership. It begins with people like us so let's hope discussion groups like this can get the word out.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
This trend to 'authenticate' non-verifiable practices suggests that people somehow feel inadequate with their own traditions, so move to appropriate the traditions of indigenous people in some misguided philosophy of being 'one people' with the drone of the didjeridu being some great Universal force. Bah!
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
I hope so too!
13713 (4 days ago)
The world today is subject to rapid cultural changes. The brightly defined colours of yesterday are slowly degrading into shades of gray. It's difficult to place ones finger on the grayscale and define where the authenticity ends, more so if one is lacking knowledge and understanding of the subject at hand, thus seeing things in black and white.
13713 (4 days ago)
At the end of the day, each and every one of us shall have to decide for oneself what is or isn't authentic, and with the information iDIDJ Australia is providing, the emerging shades of grey shall be much more easier to discern!
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Yes, I agree very much with these sentiments. The more we try to resolve the grayscale, or even the black and whites, the better I think.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
I tend to look at authenticity as it applies to cultural practices is a bit of a fib in itself, because authenticity presumes a starting point of origin. As one interested in cultural criticism, the very concept of 'authenticity' is a particularly interesting one, because each of us is a hybrid of our heritage, ancestry, experience and so on.
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
This is a very very good point! So what does it mean if a didgeridoo maker or a retailer claims the instruments he or she sells are authentic? What do we make of it, and how does it tie in with other issues such as social justice, cultural heritage, identity, intellectual property...? Humans like to classify things into binary systems. This is good, this is bad, this is real, this is fake...
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Well very well taken, Guan! Realistically, cultural 'theories' are usually best left as academic discourse with only occasional relevance to actual people!
To answer your question- the very nature of the binary is the problem, because the two halves of the system are both dependant on its opposite for its very definition.
martindidge (4 days ago)
Yes indeed Jason, I have difficulty with binary. When explaining to people what I know about the cultural origins of the instrument I explain what I know about where instruments come from and the cultural background related to that. This information is the most important thing. As Guan implies though, a binary definition is all that most people are interested
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
I certainly can't argue that, Martin. On a purely theoretical level, binary relationships are the most direct way that human beings organize the world in which we live. What some of these theoretical systems of analysis, like deconstruction, attempts to point out is that the binary is a construct rather than a universal point of origin. Deconstruction in particular hopes to point out that all relationships are structural and built upon some supposedly irrefutable 'truth'.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
There have been some very interesting essays written on the subject of American 'black' authenticity and the movements to reclaim that lost identity. In terms of didjeridu, my definition of authenticity points to Top End peoples who have a long unbroken tradition with the instrument as it fits into their ceremonial contexts with song and dance.
kdidj (4 days ago)
Yep, that's what I think too.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
But add to it the way that urban Aboriginal people have used the didjeridu to attempt to reclaim some of their long-lost traditional ways because they have been assimilated (in theory) into the dominant culture. Certainly this very movement muddied the waters of 'authenticity' and probably contributed to the global explosion of didjeridu into the wider world.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
Conserning education:
The only way to keep culture alive is to streghten it from the inside. This may happen stragly from the outside. I remember White Cockatoo's Old Jungai telling me that when they go abroad and people love them the mob back home realises that that old thing is actually really good thing. This way young ones learn to respect their own culture - because the culture is loved among outside.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
This is the reason why I try to bring White Cocatoo to Finland. They are the only people who can tell and educate outsiders conserning their culture. At the same time the culture get more interesting to the younger generation.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
So to tell about the yidaki/mago is to bring the best of that culture to abroad and let them educate and teach others about it.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
But they will need help and this is the part where everyone of us here can help. Ask Guan Lim or Geoff Toll who and when the group could come to your homeland. Organize a tour for them and connect them to media. Or more simple - maech to a New Age shop and deal them Dlau, Milikay and Dikkarna CD's. And most important do not benefit from it. This way you benefit the most
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Tis a good thing, I fully support the idea of Indigenous Australian performers going on tour! White Cockatoo in Finland would be awesome!
tuomasky (4 days ago)
They have already been here three times mate;)
tuomasky (4 days ago)
We should form a touring group of tradtional masters (yidaki/mago, dance, song and art) whose aim would be telling the throught about Western and NE Arnhemland aborignal music and culture.
martindidge (4 days ago)
Hi Tuomas!
Yes this would be fantastic, but requires a lot of planning. If we start now for next year then maybe it can be done?!
tuomasky (4 days ago)
Next year is quite fast because the tour should be in summer. How does a Summer 2009 sounds like. That would leave tim to plan everything well, apply grants, find sponsors, find venues...
martindidge (4 days ago)
Good. I am up for it! Oh, and good to see you here Tuomas, quite a long time ago that I met you in Finland
There are also various music schools that also have didgeridoo lessons. It would be good to organise as many workshops at these sorts of places as well.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
Good to hear from you too Martin
I think we should gather a group of person from various countries whose job would be to organize a venue, lessons etc. in their countries. Then we should form a web based meeting/organisation place where we could discuss the details.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
And we also need contact person to various groups. Geoff Toll from White Cockatoo is ok. Guan - can you organize a group from NE arnhemland - Milikay?
tuomasky (4 days ago)
And the groups would sell their CD's, DVD's and authentic mago's and yidaki's during the tour.
In addition to this I would like to see some statement by traditional groups about their music and authentity. I also see that a small book/booklet telling about traditional music should be sold/given during those tours.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Tis my aim to help promote Indigenous Australian performers here in the States as well!
martindidge (4 days ago)
For me the heart of the first question is in the actual meaning of authentic. If we are to be honest then authentic should refer to the cultural origins of the object and as such for me an authentic didgeridoo would come from Arnhem Land made by aboriginal people that have a continuous cultural connection to this instrument. If painted then it should also be painted by an aboriginal person in the same situation as the maker.
martindidge (4 days ago)
If one talks about the area of Northern-Territory, Western Australia and Northern Queensland where the didge in some form has been in use for more than 100 years then the situation is less clear. Several generations of artists and musicians is the beginning of what could become a long tradition. Whether that classifies also as "authentic" I am not sure.
martindidge (4 days ago)
Maybe I should qualify this. I am not asserting that such continuous use exists, but rather asking that "if" such were the case would/should an instrument made by someone of this "new" tradition be considered authentic?
mahoran (4 days ago)
Interesting remarks. The word authentic seems to be getting us some problem as there is not clear cut definitito to it.I can also make an instrument and call this very instrument authentic. Who is to say it is not and what grounds? But if we talk about yidaki, I do not think it is that complicated as we put more emphasize on the cultural heritage and the rights of the maker on the instrument.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Remember too that this is a living culture, not some rarefied group in 'the past'!
holostik (4 days ago)
indeed. trying to define authentic is like trying to define where green becomes turquoise. even if you did, and 1000 others agreed (unlikely), why should no.1001 agree? absurd
kdidj (4 days ago)
Perhaps the term 'authentic cultural connection' would better explain what we're discussing rather than the more vague 'authentic' which as we've seen can be read in many ways! It's the instruments connection, through craftsman, clan, geography, material and substance that determines its 'authenticity'.
mahoran (4 days ago)
There are some points I'd like to bring up: To what extent didgeridoo production should be performed by Yolgnu? There seems to be a trade-off as getting them fulfill demand for the whole planet might turn it into mass-production too. This will probably change the role of yidaki in theire culture. So, there seems to be a need for the non-Yolgnu made insturments as well. Yet this should be controlled to protect the true owners. two-edged sword, that is..Any idea on that?
mahoran (4 days ago)
Apart from that one thing I am clear about: When I wanna buy an instrument, I want my money to go into the pocket of a Yolgnu.
kdidj (4 days ago)
Remember that there are other social groups in the Top End that also craft didgeridoos - not just the Yolngu and their yidaki!
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Dang, Kyle beat me to it! It is true that yidaki seem to be the most conspicuous of Top End didjeridu.
mahoran (4 days ago)
Yes I agree, yet I was using the word Yolngu to refer to the top-end people crafting. to tell them from Balanda..
holostik (4 days ago)
so no-one should buy an instrument from a dealer, only from the maker himself or the local art centre, right?
mahoran (4 days ago)
To me, the are not many places from which you can get a good trad. instrument. IDIDJ is the first choice to me. They have a many, hand-selected instruments. There are also some others like yirkala you can trust.
mahoran (4 days ago)
Moreover, dealer in Europe I agree with you fully that there is a huge mark-up in the prices. Maybe partly due to taxes etc. Dunno. But it rings more reasonable to me to get it from the continent where they are all made, whenever possible.
regeridu (4 days ago)
What about Balanda like Nathan Burton who has learned the traditional methods of crafting Yidaki from Djalu.(for those in the know,Burton sticks are mighty fine instruments) equal to or better than some Yolngu made ones IMHO.
kdidj (4 days ago)
This is where the definitions become important. Nathan's instruments are didgeridoos but are they yi(r)daki? This is a contentious issue. If the instruments characteristics are the same or similar to Yolngu made yidaki is this instrument a yidaki as well or does the name yidaki imply that the instrument has been made by a Yolngu craftsmen? I would only use the term yidaki when referring to Yolngu made sticks but I'll repeat that Nathan Burton's instruments are indeed didgeridoos.
itsadidj (4 days ago)
Agreed......
regeridu (4 days ago)
Would anyone of you fork out good money for lesser quality but authentic Yirdaki made by Yolngu just for the "Soul" factor and or cultural tradition?
kdidj (4 days ago)
Of course. I've done this for vintage instruments that have a certain 'sentimental' value to me as they were crafted in a different era and hark back to the earlier days of the cultural tradition. They aren't great players but they do have 'soul'!
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
I would indeed, as they represent, as Kyle pointed out, a time in history that no longer exists in that particular way. 'Soul' with respect to traditional instruments is a difficult concept to articulate clearly.
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Yes, I have I have! The flip side... would you fork out good money for tourist junk not knowing it was tourist junk? Many people have. Because of misleading labelling and advertising on the part of the retailer or manufacturer. I think informed choice is the operative word here.
martindidge (4 days ago)
That they are equal to or better is of course a subjective opinion. I do not believe that authentic can be equated in any simple way to playing quality. It can probably be related to the way in which a particular instrument responds to particular playing techniques that are connected to an established cultural tradition.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Well in the criteria that we have established, Burton's sticks, while of good quality, lack the 'soul' of truly traditional instruments in that they are crafted by a 'visitor' to Yolngu culture. They simply do not have the connection to either Yolngu cosmology or to Yolngu themselves.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Oops-- I would also not call them yidaki, reserving that term to Yolngu-made instruments only.
holostik (4 days ago)
i think i missed something. where did this thread start?
kdidj (4 days ago)
At the top! When people reply to certain posts however they are posted beneath the post replied to and are indented which makes following the discussion a feat in itself!
holostik (4 days ago)
i see. so we get an endless post with lots of postlets? sorry, youtube nube
martindidge (4 days ago)
Unfortuntely for us I guess is asleep by now. Hopefully tomorrow one can resolve this problem.
AlexRawlings (4 days ago)
Is there an agreement between the different clans as to what is authentic? If there isn't it would be very hard to pin this down. I would say that any clan that uses a didjeridu in its rituals, songs and dances and has done for generations could be considered an authentic source for this.
GhostofGW (4 days ago)
Patience and education.What do we say to a beginner who just paint his "new didgeridoo" like Djalu's yidaki or another crafter without knowing what he just did ?I dont know if i fit in this discussion but when i see this and we see this a lot i ask myself, how ?
AlexRawlings (4 days ago)
In this day and age with sales and marketing maximizing selling potential, control of authenticity would be hard but not impossible. The real responsibilty relies in educating people by informing them that authenticity exists, this allows them to choose ethically or not as the case may be.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
One thing that I would never want to happen would be a true commodification of the didjeridu in Top End communities! While traditional instruments are offered for sale as a way of benefitting economically from traditional culture, I believe this to be done in line with ceremonial exchanges of knowledge.
AlexRawlings (4 days ago)
What Guan says on his site is also interesting
"A traditional custodian is an Indigenous Australian who is entitled, by Aboriginal tradition, to make and use the didgeridoo and whose ancestors, by Aboriginal tradition, have made and used the didgeridoo." Is a custodian the person to decide what authentic is ?
holostik (4 days ago)
what do you say about an aborigine who starts using power tools
kdidj (4 days ago)
They already do!
holostik (4 days ago)
yes i know - but is that authentic? what if they drill a log out?
martindidge (4 days ago)
If the instrument maker is making the instrument within a continuing cultural tradition related to the making and playing of the instrument then using power tools does not alter that. It makes the work easier (as we all know). If they drill a log .. challenging question, but with all the hollow eucalypts in Arnhem land I do not see any reason that one would want to make life harder by drilling out a log.
kdidj (4 days ago)
Is it only an obstruction in the bore that is drilled out or do you mean drilling a solid log (which in the Top End would be quite silly due to the vast amounts of termite hollowed stems avaliable)? There are many complex details that can affect the situation and any answer with regard to it's authenticity. See my post above re 'connection'.
holostik (4 days ago)
i meant in general. just theoretical. the maker can obviously use whatever tools they want, but who decides if its "authentic"? do yolngu have this concept of authentic, or is this just a didge scene thing? or just a marketing gag with everyone trying to prove they have the most authentic logs?
itsadidj (4 days ago)
Hello Everyone. Guan, I've always thought that your labeling system was an excellent idea. Its short, sweet and to the point. This system must find its way to each and every stick sold. period. It seems to me like one of the quickest ways to inform the customer prior to purchase.
itsadidj (4 days ago)
You will always find people interested in the didj/yirdaki who are of various economic and educational backgrounds and this would at least be an excellent first step in letting them know exactly what they are about to purchase regardless of the size of there wallet.
http://www.ididj.com.au/authenticity/label.html
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
A point worth raising is one of simple economic survival, and one that I am more and more interested in- what of Aboriginal peoples who, while not 'traditional custodians', are paid for painting harvested euc stems in a traditional manner? Might mean the difference between bringing some food to the family and relying on the dole.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
My own interest in Aboriginal culture makes instruments made and painted by those people who have done so in an unbroken cultural tradition will naturally turn me away from more 'tourist'-oriented sticks-- but we must certainly realize that what is a hobby or interest to us as players/collectors/students of culture is a means of economic livlihood and sometimes a question of survival. Just a thought....
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
Here's the pricky point: all of us discussing here already know something about didge/yirdaki/mago, while the vast majority of tourists probably never heard the word Yolngu - yet they would also look for whatever stuff was labelled 'authentic'. That's what tourists do. Wouldn't accurate labelling overly increase demand for a necessarily low-offer product? Wouldn't that decrease overall quality? Wouldn't it decrease the cultural sicnificance of the instrument among the Aboriginal communities?
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Certainly we can't rely on any governmental agency to legislate levels of authenticity, because there are many agendas to satisfy there.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
Agreed. Trusting the Australian government on this is not a good idea. But even a voluntary, self-regulated system of labelling, once it had spread enough awareness about authenticity among the masses, would have almost the same - good and bad - effects.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
I think such labeling was tried in the past, then abandoned-- education and advocacy must be done on an individual level, because to try and change 'the system' will likely be a painful struggle.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
It is through the promotion of culture on a personal level that the largest benefits and impact can be realized. I can pass along what information I can, when I can--- but to become an advocate for a people that I only know second-hand does not sit well with me. I can only lead through example and be a resource for those who ask.
itsadidj (4 days ago)
I don't think so. Accurate labeling can only educate. Tourists are still going to purchase what they want but it might make them think a bit more. It may not proove to be as lucrative but educating the consumer is never a bad thing.
itsadidj (4 days ago)
Maybe I'm not thinking it thru here but I don't think it would increase demand for a necessarily low-offer product or decrease overall quality either. I think it could do just the opposite. Now getting retail shops to agree to label or display this system - well, that is another matter - again education.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
It could increase demand in *authentic* items, because the total demand would be about the same, and increased awareness would raise the demand for authentic items instead of the 'regular' ones. That's how I see it anyway...
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
Because while the 'enlightened didgeridoo community', who actually knows something about it, is small, it's ok to go look for an authentic Yirdaki or Mago, but what if there were a million of us?
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Hence the rise of hobby crafters who create instruments of their own design when sourcing traditional instruments might be difficult, or are interested in shaping the bore to very specific playing characteristics. These represent a different side of the didj community who may drawn inspiration from the instrument's roots and make a unique contribution through their craft.
AlexRawlings (4 days ago)
I think there is a legitimate reason for indigenous people to earn a valuable income in an ethical market even if they do not come from an "authentic" region. However an ethical market needs representation and governance if it is to stay true to its source, this is where the communities themselves need to take the step into guardianship of their own culture with as much help as can be given.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
That's just it, the Aboriginal and the Western way of doing things were not made to work together. The centralization and hierarchization necessary for things to work in Western society simply don't make sense in the Aboriginal context, and vice versa.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Paternalism is an ugly thing.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
I'm sorry if it sounded like that. I do agree entirely with Alex, but I've lost confidence in the ability of Western culture to deal with and have respect for any other culture. Maybe I'm just depressed today...
AlexRawlings (4 days ago)
I think that is a good point though TorvalAK. What is needed are people to make bridges between the best ideas from both worlds. The modern market is not the fairest of arenas but can be worked with and with the right help indigenous communities can retain their spirit and the consumer is enriched by it in turn.
whiteknight9999 (4 days ago)
"Traditional" and "Authentic" seem to have the same meaning regarding the didgeridoo/yidaki (from what I have witnessed). Are these terms interrchangable, or do they have differant meanings?
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
I suppose it depends on who is using the terms and the way that they themselves define them!
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
In the sense that I am using it, 'traditional' didjeridu are those that are made utilizing traditional means of production by Aboriginal people who have a continuous cultural connection to the instrument through song and dance, through its acknowledged origins in the Top End of Australia.
In the sense that most use it, 'traditional' suggests termite-hollowed eucalyptus- which is what the majority of retailers selling sticks will use. This ambiguous definition opens the door for half-truths.
mahoran (4 days ago)
Well, I think this discussion is spiraling out of control due to many different issues all related to one another.
Another question ; how authentic the traditional yidaki we buy these days compared to those made before it was hype on the planet. I think we need to use different terms with clearer definitions to come to a conclusion;
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
If you mean harvested, crafted and painted by Yolngu- then things are relatively unchanged. Power tools may be more available for shaping the exterior of the stem, and acrylics are becoming increasingly prevalent as a medium for decoration.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Further to this point, using the yidaki as a canvas for min'tji (sacred designs) likely took hold as Arnhemland art was held in high esteem after the 1960s.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
I've heard that too. In fact all of the extremely few older instruments I've seen were painted more or less like Djalu paints his: covered from top to bottom in one color, with bands in one or two other colors (at least that's what I remember of them...) I don't remember ever seeing any plain wood old ones, with no ochres at all.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Some of the old pictures that I have seen of early yidaki look decidedly different from those today-- unadorned and rather slender.
mahoran (4 days ago)
the first conclusion one can draw is that we are not clear about some terms we are using. The lack of standard? The term 'Original' is also widely used by the online shops selling non-traditional instruments.
holostik (4 days ago)
hi mahoran
probably you didnt see because i asked the question way up the page: when you said "When I wanna buy an instrument, I want my money to go into the pocket of a Yolgnu." did you mean we should avoid going to dealers and buy direct from the makers or the art centres at least? i think its an important issue. i have seen how much instruments are sold for in art centres and from the prices i've seen from many dealers, they seem to have a massive markup.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
I can help answer this one- buy from dealers that you trust and have honest communication with, as they can help select truly special and excellent instruments.
holostik (4 days ago)
you're surely not saying you can't trust the art centre? Almost all the best yidakis come from yirrkala, right? so why pay the middleman? remote is irrelevant as far as buku is concerned: e-mail, phone - it's a bit different of course if you actually go to the local dealer to try the instruments, but im sure a huge amount of instruments are sold via e-mail.
flyangler18 (3 days ago)
No I'm not saying that at all! By buying from dealers closer in or closer to your home country, you both support local small businesses and Yolngu craftsmen through the sale of their instruments-- and the 'selection' of high-quality instruments has been done by them. I see you are in the UK-- there are several dealers who specialize in traditional instruments.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
There are lots of things that result in the sale price of an instrument- sound quality, the reputation of the crafter/artist, etc. Importation fees and shipping as well. The art centers are quite remote!
mahoran (4 days ago)
Hi Holostik,
If it is to choose between a trad instrument and a modern one, I go for trad. one (whatever need this is but one can always find a trad. one for any purpose I think). Where to buy: to my opinion, there are many places where you can buy good traditional instruments.
holostik (3 days ago)
I see. I thought you were saying that the Yolngu should be getting all the money for the instruments they make.
AlexRawlings (4 days ago)
In this context "authentic" would mean, for me, that the didj in question was crafted with an intimate understanding of how it will sing, how it will play in relation to the method or style. Will it be good enough to carry the sound that its creator knows to be its true voice. Will it have that certain spirit to it, like Bywara ! If it is made in this way can we say it is not authentic ?
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
That is a very important factor, no doubt, but it leaves out the crucial aspect of heritage, of goodness knows how many generations of uninterrupted tradition, that our own Western culture almost completely lacks. Knowledge of an art or craft is one thing; immersing a craft in a millenia-old culture, making that craft and its surrounding tradition inseparable...
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
The ever increasing commercial interest in the didjeridu has not been accompanied with any equivalent appreciation of the value of the instrument within Aboriginal society - not of its meaning nor of its symbolism.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Playing instruments that come from their spiritual homes in Arnhemland pay homage to this meaning.
holostik (4 days ago)
sorry alex, in which context? this discussion is a real mess.
AlexRawlings (4 days ago)
I was a bit vague. I meant in the context of the question "Does a didgeridoo that was made and/or painted by any Australian Indigenous person qualify as authentic?". I also agree with TorvalAk that heritage is so important but what if the maker had no heritage but crafted a unique didj that even a Yolngu would respect?
martindidge (4 days ago)
If there is to be any label of authenticity I would think it should go to those Aboriginal people who have a continual cultural tradition of making and playing the didgeridoo. Economic benefit can come from this.
martindidge (4 days ago)
But this does not preclude that other aboriginal groups in Australia who have more recently adopted the instrument cannot benefit if they make quality instruments sold as Aboriginal made Australian digeridoos.
jostaley (4 days ago)
The trouble is that authentic is always going to mean different things to different people. Authentic simply means that something is what it is claimed to be. The definition is always going to change according to what is being claimed.
jostaley (4 days ago)
I think most consumers think of 'authentic didgeridoo' as termite hollowed. Through good marketing levels of authenticity can be added to that common understanding, but a niche is always going to remain for low end instruments lacking in cultural authenticity. Most tourist don't want to pay what a top-end instrument with full cultural integrity will cost.
jostaley (4 days ago)
Its always going to come down to a question of semantics as to what can be considered 'authentic.' I do think that indigenous Australian artists will always be able to raise the desirability and price of their instruments by marketing their personal authenticity as an indigenous Australian, or traditional makers of Yidaki and Mago. That ability is what really matters.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
But why should indigenous Australians be forced to market themselves as anything? Cross-cultural understanding can only truly develop and flourish if the dominant culture looks at customary law as having real substance and worth.
jostaley (4 days ago)
I don't know what you mean by customary law. I don't me market as in cheapen themselves or sell out, but just presenting their own cultural authenticity and traditions is marketing. It places their product at the high end of desirability.
jostaley (4 days ago)
In this way the marketing becomes a tool for raising cross-cultural awareness. Marketing is just the way a product is presented to the public. It can very much be a tool for positive change.
jostaley (4 days ago)
I just want to make clear, I don't mean market themselves like a product, but as makers of the finest product of its kind. Their cultural connection as makers of yidaki and mago is a powerful selling point.
jostaley (4 days ago)
I think that they could dominate the market at all levels through that selling point, if they chose to supply the demand at all price levels.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
All this comes to show, there's no point in raising awareness of the didgeridoo as a product of Aboriginal culture if people never actually see a complete Aboriginal performance (including the singing, dancing, and translations of the sories being told).
AlexRawlings (4 days ago)
Maybe if they found something they liked about the didjeridu that may lead them to want to see, experience and learn about the culture it came from. That is how I ended up writing on this thread and I am pretty sure my first didj was not a Yolngu Yirdaki. I didn't even have the knowledge I have now about what I could be buying, I was just dying to learn this amazing instrument.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
I stand corrected... And in retrospect, I'd probably never know anything about the Aboriginal people were it not for my first contacts with western didgeridoo players. There _is_ a point in spreading the didgeridoo by itself; even if only a small a minority of the people who hear it show some interest in learning about Aboriginal culture, it's still more than none.
TorvalAK (4 days ago)
I do think what has been done so far, in terms of awareness of the context in which the yirdaki came to be, is not enough. But I fail to see what more could be done, other than getting Aboriginal performing groups to do world tours.
clarinetcat (4 days ago)
Hello! (I'm the guy that likes to stir up the pot...)
Flyangler18 quote: "But why should indigenous Australians be forced to market themselves as anything?" Well, why not? It is a global market after all.
clarinetcat (4 days ago)
Are Chinese people the only culture that sells... Chinese food?
Are the Swiss the only ones that sell... Swiss Army Knives?
Are Germans the only ones who sell cars? (A German is credited for inventing the car)
I think this discussion has revolved too much around the catch phrase "authentic".
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
I hope it isn't just a discussion. We can talk all we like, but if there is no action or outcome at the end of it, it would have been a pointless 'talkfest'. What I'm trying to assess is whether social responsibility can be married to economics. Anyone who has been to a remote Aboriginal community will know what I mean. In this day and age, being a good corporate citizen is not the reserve of those with spare time on their hands, what with Global Warming... etc.
clarinetcat (4 days ago)
You want to know if social responsibility can be married to economics? Short answer, no.
Greed and power would most likely undermine any organized attempt at combining the two.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
Yes, social responsibility can indeed be married to economics, but not as a governable system. Too many agendas to address. Social responsibility and advocacy is best addressed on through the efforts of individuals.
hollowlogger (3 days ago)
These are interesting statements on the background of a discussion that is fuelled by the prospect of winning a free didge
I just hope that people continue to discuss these things when that incentive is gone.
kdidj (3 days ago)
These issues you mention are different as the didgeridoo forms a part of the religion and belief system of the culture from which it derives. This association with the esoteric elements of ceremonial culture makes this situation vastly different from those you mention.
clarinetcat (3 days ago)
"...esoteric elements of cerimonial culture..."?!? Esoteric = understood by only a selcet few. The masses don't care where a didge comes from. Therefore, my proposed situations are NO DIFFERENT than someone buying a "Swiss Army Knife" made in Taiwan. We aren't selling a religion here.
kdidj (3 days ago)
You can't dismiss the cultural/religious significance of the instrument where authenticity is concerned. Anyone can sell a didgeridoo but that has nothing to do with its being authentic or not.
kdidj (3 days ago)
We've appropriated an instrument from the culture that has invented it and where it is involved in the ceremonial aspects of that society. I feel this should be considered when discussing the authenticity of the didgeridoo. I'm sorry to hear that you don't.
clarinetcat (4 days ago)
I guess you could buy "authentic" Chinese food from a Chinese person... but does it count if the Chinese cook was born and raised in Seattle, WA? You could always get an "authentic" Swiss Army Knife, but you'd be surprised to know that TWO companies are licensed to sell "official" products. You could also try to buy a new "authentic" German car such as the BMW Z3... except it is assembled in the USA.
clarinetcat (4 days ago)
So does it really matter where your didgeridoo is made? If it makes you feel better to support a Yolngu artist, then do so. However, there are plenty of artists in the world who currently craft fantastic didgeridoo/yidaki/mago/hollowtube instruments worthy of purchasing and playing.
ididjaustralia (4 days ago)
Yes and no for the first question IMHO. Entirely agree for the second question but that isn't the issue though. This isn't about worthiness or even about quality...
clarinetcat (4 days ago)
So what is it about?
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
It's about truly acknowledging the origins of the instrument with respect to its cultural position within Top End Aboriginal communities- and the way that retailers deceive consumers with 'authenticity'. It's also about the custodians of the instrument benefiting more equitably from the global didj market, both in terms of manufacture and through the visual arts.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
It's also about a more balanced dispersal of funding and support programs to indigenous Australians in terms of health care, literacy, and personal livelihoods. The didjeridu industry is burgeoning- with traditional instruments occupying by a small space, yet there are limited opportunities available to Yolngu in terms of advancement because paltry percentages of the total revenue is actually making it back into the communities.
flyangler18 (4 days ago)
The didjeridu can be the vehicle into a deeper and more substantial understanding of Yolngu and other Top End Aboriginal groups- through ceremony, ritual, art, etc. There is so much more than didjeridu...
tuomasky (4 days ago)
Conserning information and education:
I just googled the word didgeridoo - Wikipedia was one of the first ones to come up. I have read the articke before and I think it is not good enough. Guan - do you have time to revrite the article from traditional perspective, get the right pictures etc., player and groups?
hollowlogger (3 days ago)
I gather that Guan is a traditional custodian of the didjeridu then?
ididjaustralia (3 days ago)
No I'm not, and I'm not Indigenous. But iDIDJ Australia does work with many key individuals, groups and communities throughout the Top End so if I do something it is from these relationships that iDIDJ Australia can draw upon to find guidance and perspective.
tuomasky (3 days ago)
I know you have the knowledge to re-write that wikipedia article. And you can proof-readit with some key person such as Djalu.
tuomasky (4 days ago)
To spred the word:
I think what is needed a simple short book about the traditional mago and yidaki playing and the content behind it. The book would be accompanied by CD/DVD showcasing traditional music. The content of the books should also be in a web. Now people have to search for the traditional information... making this easy is the way to spread the knowledge.
hollowlogger (3 days ago)
Why duplicate the effort? AFAIK, the Buku Larrnggay Art Centre is setting up an extensive webpage with statements from Yolngu elders about all the issues mentioned here. In my book, this will be the most legitimate source of information as they are closest to the artists and the information will be verified by a large board of Yolngus.
holostik (3 days ago)
now THAT sounds interesting. something directly from the Yolgnu for a change. great that they are gonna speak for themselves
ididjaustralia (3 days ago)
Any initiative that generates more interest and is done competently is a good thing. Rather than be seen as duplicating the effort of one community art centre it could complement or supplement it. Or it could be a collaboration even.
ididjaustralia (3 days ago)
The Buku-L website wasn't done in isolation either... Randy who has done a tremendous job of it asked me to review it a couple of times to offer suggestion or modification, which I did. And I ain't Yolngu, so does that mean the website is not legitimate now because of my input?
tuomasky (3 days ago)
I don't know a non-scientific book that tells about aboriginal music and gives information about yidaki/mago in it's tradtional contects. And other problem is that you already have to know about Buku etc. before founding it. I claim that a newbie founds those new age pages before ididj/buku pages...
ididjaustralia (3 days ago)
Also, how many guitar books are there? Why do so many people go to the effort of researching, writing, editing etc. if all it comes down to is 'duplication'? Lastly, there are a lot more views that could be gathered... from say Numbulwar or Groote Eylandt, or Daly River or Ramingining. One could even write a whole book about the perspectives of a single family, say, the Wanybarrnga Djambarrpuyngu, when it comes to didgeridoo...
hollowlogger (3 days ago)
This is not about 'duplication', this is about 'authenticity', remember? If you have contibuted to it that's fine, the critical point is that it gets verified. And I assume that Art Centers that are situated where the people actually live are best equipped for showing it to a lot of people and can get the broadest feedback.
ididjaustralia (3 days ago)
Community art centres are well equipped and the best for consultative processes for that sort work, yes most definitely! But only for that particular community. Also, not every community has an art centre unfortunately...
TorvalAK (3 days ago)
That shows the need for the compilation of a book/DVD/webpage/whatever, that can encompass all these communities into one easily accessible introduction to Aboriginal culture, aimed specifically at didgeridoo enthusiasts. What say you of a collective effort, by ourselves?
hollowlogger (3 days ago)
A collective effort by ourselves? A bunch of non-Aboriginal guys? You must be kidding. How authentic would that be? A collection of half-truths at best.
tuomasky (3 days ago)
I see that the "product" needs to be scientific and done by professional scholars - I understand that you Guan are doing doctors thesis on a matter close to this. I see that you should just continue doing your great work and compile a short, informative and scientific "product" on traditional yidaki and mago.
tuomasky (3 days ago)
And what we can do is to support Guan on this by proof-reading and commenting texts etc.
ididjaustralia (3 days ago)
Ah... not really. My research was on Caring for Whose Country? Which is about Yolngu land use and management, identity, relationships to land etc. The identity part did look at music and other forms of cultural expression. All this is in the past tense. There are more useful things to do than to be stuck in academia...
tuomasky (3 days ago)
Well mate, now you got time to do this "product"
TorvalAK (3 days ago)
of course, not by our selves exclusively! I was thinking more like, each of us getting assigned to an art center, studying it, learning from it, then discuss what we had learned, share the information with each other, and compiling the main ideas. Maybe some simplification would have to be done, but in the end it would be something not entirely out of our heads, and not entirely incomprehensible for the general public (yes, I know I'm exaggerating on both).
mahoran (4 days ago)
Skimming thru the posts, there is no agreement on the use of words like authentic, original etc. Most think that this depends on the use and context. Agreed. A modern instrument made by Ben Hicks is as authentic as a trad. one made by Yolngu.
tuomasky (3 days ago)
I recall Djalu saying in Garma that balanda can not make yidaki. When he (Djalu) makes an instrument it becomes a yidaki when he has blown a spirit in to it. I don't understand anything about aboriginal spiritualism but at least I understand that the balanda can not make a yidaki.
tuomasky (3 days ago)
In Garma 2004 there was held a yidaki speech/statemnt by some respected aboriginal elders. I did record it with my mini-disk. Guan - I could send it to you in the weekend, if you could find a proper place to put it.
ididjaustralia (3 days ago)
We need proper authorisation from YYF first before we can do anything with it. Anything recorded at any Garma needs clearance first before put to public use.
tuomasky (3 days ago)
I understand. I will contact them and ask them what can be done.
mahoran (3 days ago)
Thus, I humbly propose the use of traditional instead of the aforementioned ones. For the informed folks, the word authentic means nothing, right? yet for ill-informed people seeing such words can be persuasive..
hollowlogger (3 days ago)
That wouldn't solve anything at all. As soon as a log is hollowed by termites, it does get marketed as "traditional" by most didjshops in the world. And how long does it take a practice to become a tradition?
flyangler18 (3 days ago)
Where do you draw the line with respect to the instruments that you buy then, hollowlogger? Does it sit well with you that the euc stem that you just bought was probably clearfelled by white fellas with chainsaws in an environmentally destructive way, and probably taken too early and needed to be drilled out in a workshop to make playable?
hollowlogger (3 days ago)
What makes you think that I would support such practices, flyangler18? My only (semantic) point here was that the word "traditional" is not better or worse defined and clearcut than "authentic" or any other such term.
hollowlogger (3 days ago)
Seems to me that the whole discussion is a bit of a moot point - a bunch of white guys discussing issues of Aboriginal authenticity.
regeridu (3 days ago)
I agree with you mate!
tuomasky (3 days ago)
I think that we are the consumers of this culture. And this discussion is just trying to figure what belongs to that culture and what is not. If we start to consume products that are not done by this culture we start to destroy it. We have a responsibility as a consumer too - lets call it like a fair trade didjeridu consuming
kdidj (3 days ago)
The discussion began in relation to authenticity as it relates to the didgeridoo, not Aboriginality in general.
tuomasky (3 days ago)
By culture I ment the culture related to this instrument. As a consumers we should recognise the whole package and throuh this we would be able to bye the right things. To know what we are buying we need education - and as a responsible consumers we should educate ourselves to know what we are in to it.
AlexRawlings (3 days ago)
We are also finding out through this discussion that there are no set answers that encapsulate all the problems relating to this subject. It is not so much a moot point as an area needing care and attention.
holostik (3 days ago)
wouldnt it be more sensible to have a proper forum? this page is getting ridiculos. you have to scan through the whole page to find new replies to old posts. why youtube?
clarinetcat (3 days ago)
Probably because YouTube is where the video of Larry playing the "Free Didge" is located... easy link to here.
clarinetcat (3 days ago)
Flyangler18 QUOTE: "It's about truly acknowledging the origins of the instrument with respect to its cultural position within Top End Aboriginal communities- and the way that retailers deceive consumers with 'authenticity'. It's also about the custodians of the instrument benefiting more equitably from the global didj market, both in terms of manufacture and through the visual arts."
clarinetcat (3 days ago)
Hoo-boy, where do I begin? If you want, you can truly acknowledge what you believe are the origins of the instrument, but anyone that thinks the global didgeridoo market will share their profits with the Yolngu people is delusional. Besides, who is going to determine who the "custodians" of the instrument are? Would a young yolngu boy who has never played a didgeridoo be considered a custodian? He's "authentic", isn't he?
clarinetcat (3 days ago)
I could create a dot-pattern Aboriginal-style painting right now... <paint> and now I am going to sell it. <EBAY> Woo-hoo, I just found some sucker who likes my artwork and paid ME for it! <cha> Is the artwork "authentic". I guess not. Do I owe the Yolngu people any of my profits? Uhhh, no.
clarinetcat (3 days ago)
The didgeridoo is an instrument... it is a hollow tube, for crying out loud. As an instrument it is a marketable "product". People invent various "products" all the time. If someone else comes up with a similar "product" cheaper, or is better able to market their product, good for them... they have every right to make a living, too.
clarinetcat (3 days ago)
What if I told you the origins of the didgeridoo is actually AFRICAN?!?!? African people migrated into Australia... shouldn't we allow the people of Africa to benefit equally from the global didge market that they discovered and ultimately created?
http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/disp.html
mahoran (3 days ago)
Dear Clarinetcat,
what if I told you there is a teapot orbiting jupiter,
since you can not disprove it, you can believe it. Anything hollow you ca blow into is didgeridoo. But how come you wanna decide to dot painting. This is stealing buddy.
mahoran (3 days ago)
anybody can do anything s/he wants so you wanna do dot-panting bcoz it all boils down to make. since u get paid no probs. If this is your viewpoint, you are on hte wrong page I think. Do not bother yourself..
mahoran (3 days ago)
anybody can do anything s/he wants so you wanna do dot-panting bcoz it all boils down to making money. since u get paid no probs. If this is your viewpoint, you are on the wrong page I think. Do not bother yourself..(sorry for miswriting)
clarinetcat (2 days ago)
Painting in dot-style isn't stealing... I'm creating my own painting through imitation and/or modification, it's not yours. You can't "own" a style, that's ludicrous.
flyangler18 (2 days ago)
The rights, ownership and entitlement to indigenous art styles are the intellectual and cultural property of those cultures.
And when white fellas appropriate Aboriginal motifs, symbology and style it's most certainly stealing. Why is this so difficult to understand?
flyangler18 (2 days ago)
It is disrespectful on the level of the culture you are appropriating from to copy these art styles. It is deeply hurtful to aboriginal people on spiritual, personal and existential levels that sacred aspects of their culture are consistantly taken from them and misused.
clarinetcat (15 hours ago)
There IS a teapot orbiting Jupiter.
About the dot painting, don't get your panties all in a wad... I'm not actually doing dot paintings.
I may star
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