iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

[flyangler18]

Quote:

I believe that the biggest problem for contemporary style players when confronting these technical issues of trad playing is simply that they do not yet have enough strength and coordination in their tongue, having relied heavily on their cheeks.

Excellently stated, Martin- and something that I've thought for a long time. Shifting the 'center' for breathing away from the cheeks and more towards the back of the tongue/throat is challenging but rewarding in getting the right sound, as is using deeper body accents.

Anthony, keep it up!

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[stockie]

Jason

are you coming over again thisn year to Taperly if so can I sit down with you and Kyle as I have this difficulty as well just cant seem to get the breathing on both Dhrlls. and hopefully my lungs will be a bit better by then as Im out of breath just typing this tee hee

[flyangler18]

Quote:

are you coming over again thisn year to Taperly

Don't know at this stage, as 2008 is shaping up to be busy with travel to Arnhem Land in July and other travel commitments. I'd certainly like to come over again- but then again, let's get the UK gang over to JT

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[danielsaan]

I have been working on this, since my little soree on UToob the other day. Ben Hicks recorded a couple of samples for me, of dirrl-dirrl-dirrl-dirrl (all short ones). Anyway....

The short dirrl is the bugger of the two! I can do the tap-on-the-gum-ridge and then breath of the long dirrl in an okayish mannor.
Seems in the long dirrl the pattern is this: <Voice><Breath>Tongue-tap</voice></breath>SNIFF

But then there is the short one, where the pattern is a bit different it seems the voice is absent (?). Rather than actions running in series, they run in parallel (and please note that there are no voice markers (unless i miss my guess):

Sniff
Tongue-tap (repeat for double dirrl) WHICH HAPPEN AT THE SAME TIME. TIME RUNS IN THE ------> DIRECTION

The hard bit is the tap at the same time as the sniff! It is the equivalent of trying to learn use the tongue as a pump in western style didgerdoo! Any suggestions, folks? Forgive the phony-HTML coding, but it makes it easier to think about, plus I am in IT and I like HTML

Although this is really XML, coz I am making tags... moving on!
Any advice?

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Danyu

[martin]

Hi Daniel,
yes, the tongue is in the end doing a decent bit of the work.
The tongue "sound" is usually of the "ng" or "tail" n type.
So "dhirrl" with the breath incorporated reads more like
"dhirrlng". Just play, without thinking. Imitate the sounds that you hear - and most importantly the timing.
The breath will find its correct place sooner or later
If you look carefully at all the wonderful videos that Guan has stuck on youtube for us, you will notice that most Yolngu
include a bit of jaw movement in the quick dhirrl.

cheers, M

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[YidakiMago]

Hi guys long time no chat,

But here are my 2 cent's to the story. Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen and again listen to traditional recordings. Not just the contemporary guys like Winiwini and the Hard tongue CD. But older releases as well, like the Ellis Molley collection. Due time you will notice that the basics explained ad hard tongue CD, Djalu, Winiwini and others are pretty much the same though the way it is translated by a particular player (and region) will differ greatly. By listening to the great diversity off NEAL styles you will enhance your feel for the particular sound and timing. The last one I find very crucial! The order in witch the whole action (sequens: did-thu-dhirrl-dhirrl.........) takes place in time. It is one body movement. Just like dancing......without the legs and arms of course. And by not using your cheeks you are forced to use your dia-frame (belly). It's not just the tongue, breathing, throat or belly? For all I know Yol\u do not separate these. It's the western way off learning things!
What really helped me to get these chain off events happening is shutting down the noodle (mind), play the recording off your liking.............and tune in, play along and get that feel and groove. By the way turn the volume up so you barely can hear you self play. This way you don't get judgemental and frustrated whilst playing. Have fun!!! Relax...............everything will fall into place if one plays frequently. Yes it's dull to say, but so true for us non Yol\u it's a lot off practice.

One other thing I noticed is that you greatly reduce your air by using your voice. I can best describe it as singing in to your Yidaki. By singing the line "did-thu-dhirrl-dhirrl........." or any other phrase. This all to gather will make your Yidaki sing.

And last but not least ......................It really does matter in my humble opinion what instrument you play one. If you got the right stuff this will effect your playing enormously. Not every Yidaki will translate the singing perfectly in every region. It took me some years and a small fortune to get the instrument off my liking. Many thanks to moderator off this Forum, for he is truly selling the right stuff.

Cheers Peter

[ozmadman]

ididjaustralia wrote:

Hi Jens, Can anyone else explain better? Guan

Hi Jens

Know what to do but not sure If I can explain it though, will have a go !!!! Try practicing this without the didj. Say the sound Dhirrl by pulling the tongue back so it sits on the roof of your mouth and it feels as though the base of your tongue has shut off the back of your throat. Put your hand on your adams apple, if you are doing the right action your adams apple will move downwards as you make the dhirrl sound. Once you get used to this do the same action but this time pull in your stomach as you say dhirrl. now comes the breath!!! As soon as you have finished the dhirrl bit say the word "Lor "by dropping your tongue down to the bottom of your mouth and drop your stomach down quickly to its starting position this action will force a small amount of air in through your nose as an automatic reflex, you wont be able to stop it!!. if you still have your hand on your adams apple this will go back up again on the Lor bit. So to recap Dhirrl, tongue up, pull stomach in then Lor, relax tongue, relax stomach quickly which will cause air to come in through your nose. At all times there is no cheek movement while doing these exercises. Will try to get this on a soundfile and post tomorrow if I can so you can hear what it sounds like. Once you can "throat" breathe you will make big strides in your progress.
Hope this helps

Paul

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Breathe and Chill then your Yidaki/Mago will sound Brill
Paul (OZMADMAN)
http://www.didjnt.com
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[YidakiMago]

ozmadman wrote:

Put your hand on your adams apple, if you are doing the right action your adams apple will move downwards as you make the dhirrl sound. Paul

Paul this is very nice feedback indeed. Did find this trick your selfs? One can actually feel what is going on. Top notch tip This one is stashed on my personal hard drive!!!

Cheers mate,

Peter

[ozmadman]

YidakiMago wrote:

[Paul this is very nice feedback indeed. Did find this trick your selfs? Cheers mate, Peter

Hi Pete

Well sort of!! Even before trying to learn trad styles, which wasn't too long ago, I was experimenting with ways to play fast. During one practice session I was just going a bit mad and playing a rhythm as fast as I could and I realised I hadn't run out of breath but I wasn't using my cheeks to store the air either, cos they were squeezed in!!! I realised I was kind of swallowing and the air just came in through my nose, it just came automatically by accident. I had learn't to throat breathe before I knew there was such a thing!!!

Will try to post a soundfile soon to give a idea of what it sounds like with and without the didj

Thanks for your comments...

Best wishes

Paul

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Breathe and Chill then your Yidaki/Mago will sound Brill
Paul (OZMADMAN)
http://www.didjnt.com
http://uk.youtube.com/profile?user=ozmadman

[YidakiMago]

Superb Paul,

That's why you could explain so clearly. Yes can confirm it is like throat (or as I call it tongue) breathing. Never analysed it that way cos I was already using this technique pretty much in contemporary style, but it is very good to know. Now I will be able to explain better to people what is going on in NEAL. This is a good quick start to get people into the fast breathing without the cheeks. From there it is small step to introducing them to "Dhirrl"

"It's a small step, but a big one for Yidaki Kind"

Ciao,

Peter

[Hansson]

Was a mans question ever answered that competently and comprehensively? Well, not that I can remember.

Smashing explanations! Thank you Paul. And thank you all guys.

[Hansson]

Was a mans question ever answered that competently and comprehensively? Well, not that I can remember.

Smashing explanations! Thank you Paul. And thank you all guys.

[kdidj]

In a typically Western manner we're all over analyzing the technique and dwelling on an issue that is not even discussed in Arnhem Land! This whole concept of 'throat breathing' was raised by UK didj radical Stan and was never referred to as such prior to this. Most of us interested in the traditional playing styles long before the release of the teaching CDs simply refer to breathing in a manner that does not rely as heavily on the inflation of the cheeks.

If the rhythm you're playing is correct than the breathing will have to be correct or else it just won't work, which is why I always instruct players to focus on the phrasing and timing of the vamp. We all have our own ways of figuring things out and to me, one's own journey is as important as the result. At the end of the day it's the sound that is important and whatever way you get there is the right one for you.

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[YidakiMago]

Cherio Kdidj

kdidj wrote:

If the rhythm you're playing is correct than the breathing will have to be correct or else it just won't work, which is why I always instruct players to focus on the phrasing and timing of the vamp. We all have our own ways of figuring things out and to me, one's own journey is as important as the result. At the end of the day it's the sound that is important and whatever way you get there is the right one for you.

These sentences are sooooooooo.............TRUE. For me there's only one thing left to say. Enjoy the trip and have fun, don't get to serious cos live is to short for that.

[Mungatje]

Regardless of the rhythm or technique you are practicing always aim to build up air pressure within your mouth. Once you have a reasonable amount of air pressure within your mouth you will be able to take short breaths at specific points of the rhythm as required, with minimal movement of the cheeks, throat, tongue etc.