iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

[ididjaustralia]

Here is an interesting recording of Darryl Digarrnga talking about how he sticks to Gunborrk style and why he does not play Bunggul style of NE Arnhem Land. I made sure to record Darryl talking in Kune in order to capture the crucial points he is trying to make... and when I've learnt sufficient Kune (right, when's that going to happen ) perhaps I'll understand the issues better. Here is PART 1 of the recording:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNAOWDlW24c

Guan

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[flyangler18]

This is very interesting stuff, Guan. Now I wonder- did Darryl make a distinction between teaching actual traditional songs and just instructive techniques utilized in traditional styles? This point comes up frequently, I think.

Jason

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[ididjaustralia]

Hi Jason,

I'm not sure that he does make a distinction. He doesn't actually use the words style or technique I think... but he does make a distinction between bunggul and gunborrk styles. The problem with asking questions is the issue of language... when I asked direct questions I get responses that are tangent to the original question, kinda like skirting around the issue. But an important point might come up if we talk about something else when I'm not looking for particular answers.

Anyway, here's PART 2 of the recording which is lengthier and more in-depth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaeC9LrpD4A

Guan

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[flyangler18]

Completely understandable, Guan. I always curious to hear from various people about this issue, because we've aptly demonstrated that there is far from any consensus on the question of traditional styles.

'Tis a confusing thing.

Jason

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[ididjaustralia]

Darryl does talk about style and tune. In my experience, when Aboriginal people in Arnhem Land use the Englsih word tune, they're refering to rhythmic patternings and compositions.

There is no consensus on this issue of course, but it is important to be mindful of the what Aboriginal people might think and the diversity of opinions on this. A while ago, there was lobbying by prominent Indigenous Australians for some sort of royalty scheme where all didgeridoo recording artists and performers pay a fee for the privilege of playing this musical instrument. That's one extreme in the spectrum of opinions.

Guan

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[flyangler18]

Quote:

There is no consensus on this issue of course, but it is important to be mindful of the what Aboriginal people might think and the diversity of opinions on this.

Absolutely!

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[Ahaw]

Hi !

Interresting debate !
Differenciation between technique and song...

I was thinking that perhaps they do not make the difference as they traditionaly do not have written, stable songs... ?
Like any Occidental Classicals or Rock bands or else, who have translated their music onto a partition.
This fixes the music on a rythmic and melodic scale.
Wheras Aboriginals would rather know the "plot" of the musical theme they are interpreting. That plot being "alive"... meaning it can change direction anytime, to the will of the lead songman, with only a sort of "anouncement" technique (like rapid claps on the sticks for ex.)
I mean, if their graphic and musical Art represent Nature itself, then their Art can only be alive !
This leads to my conclusion that songs are not definitively learned, but are regularily "played to life" through the mastering of singing/dancing/painting/didjing techniques and their interconnections.
Meaning that "one song" can never be replayed live again...
And that "learning Aboriginal songs" rather means "mastering the techniques, combinations and hidden meaning" composing that song, than just reproducting "similar sounding".

Well... that is only my little supposition...
I may surely be way off reality there but that's how I feel it today

[ididjaustralia]

Here is a rough transcription of Darryl's PART 1 comments. The transcriptions are for the English bits for those who said they could not understand Aboriginal English

I've added some words in brackets as corrections so that the sentences make more sense to readers.

Quote:

Language... Well, um, like what I'm saying... we don't steal for (from) all them Miwatj mob, they do (their) own style and we do (our) own style like Gunborrk. My grandfather David Blanasi he (has) been travel(ing) around but he couldn't (didn't) pinch for (from) anybody else, anybody('s) Bunggul, (he plays) only gunborrk, that (is) his own Gunborrk (for) my grandfather, so I'm doing (it the) same way I don't want to steal anyone else('s) Bunggul otherwise (in the) background they might get angry (and) they will talk about us, they will say oh that man there he's touring around overseas (but) he's stealing (stolen and used) our Bunggul ... what I'm saying (is that) I don't want to steal anybody else('s) Bunggul so (that is why) I follow my own Gunborrk. Language... So when I travel around I don't steal for (from) Balanda and I play (my) own, I take (my) own didgeridoo and clapsticks, that's my culture, I really follow my culture. And it is a little bit hard for Balanda because some Aboriginal people don't like Balanda to pinch our culture you know like didgeridoo clapsticks all that stuff. Well we (are a) little bit sad and little bit like... language.. It is ok if we can teach Balanda didgeridoo clapsticks but he don't have to steal our didgeridoo and clapsticks you know like singing that's no good because it makes us little bit shy you know, little bit shy for our culture.

Guan

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[Josh Staley]

Thats some interesting material.

I believe I have seen videos of Bunggul players imitating the style of Western Arnhem land players, not seriously but just for fun. It doesn't seem that Darryl would agree with that. To me it demonstrates one of the clearest problems with coming to a consensus on these issues. That being that there is no consensus on these issues among the people of Arnhem land. We want to respect their views and wishes but the views and wishes vary so much. There are as many view-points Arnhem land as there are people in Arnhem land!

I wonder if it would be better to start working from a position of what will happen rather than what the people of Arnhem land think should happen. For instance, the idea that white people can't teach didgeridoo, I can respect that view-point, but it seems unrealistic in practicality. People are going to do it regardless. I personally feel that all people have a right to make money off of learned skills, but its just another opinion. In any case, people will do it. If there was some sort of conference among the people of Arnhem land which came to a consensus that the official stand was that no one else should play the didgeridoo or profit from its sale, how many of us would abide by that? Would you all stop playing/selling? I know I would keep playing.

Small isolated cultures often struggle when the stream of the modern world sweeps them up, this is nothing new. I think this is what is happening in Arnhem land to a degree, the shrinking modern world has arrived and there is going to be a range of opinions on it from whole-hearted acceptance, to strong resistance. We can learn from past experience that this tide is inevitable. I think sites like this, yirrkala, serious sticks, etcetera are doing a good thing by helping the people of the top-end enter the world community without being unfairly exploited. Its a concept called fair-trade and its an idea that is spreading fast in how indigenous people the world over are compensated for their work and skill. Thats all that can be realistically expected and desired is to receive a fair price for their products and teachings. I think their personal provenance gives them an advantage that will allow that to happen.

[Darth Ak-sar-ben]

I make a certain soup passed on to me by my Mother and I passed it on to my children (really!) called Rivvel soup. Made with potatoes, milk, onions, seasonings, and beaten eggs mixed with flour. If I sell this rivvel soup and make money at doing it so be it. If someone in Australia makes this Rivvel soup after I tell them how to make it and they are crafty enough cooks to make it, and sell it there for a profit, what do I care? They are the ones making the soup, buying the ingredients, doing the work(labor) and marketing it. I made no contribution to the effort other than to provide the soup's recipe. It's not mine to be taken, it belongs to mankind, and I just happen to know how to make it. Relates to didgeridoo how??

Aboriginal man make a didgeridoo and plays it. It is used in their ceremonies and rituals. It is unique to their culture for their use, but the actual instrument is not. How can one be called a custodian of an instrument? Would all violins be considered Italian's property since Stradivarius and other Master violin makers came from there? Wold drums be considered too sacred for anyone to play other than Native American Indians that incorporate it into their ritualistic dances and songs? The Alp horn of Switzerland is a didgeridoo by design, just played differently. Are Swiss the only people that should ever play it? Or does it along with the drums, the pipes, the organs, the violins, and yes the didgeridoo belong to mankind?

It's not the didgeridoo that is sacred and special, it is the man behind the instrument that makes it so. It is the player and his richness of his voice and his ability that coaxes out the sounds that are either melodies of harmony, relaxation music, or parts of cultural rituals specific to an individual or culture.

_________________
Cheers!
Vern

"You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

http://www.vernsdidj.com

[ididjaustralia]

Ahaw wrote:

This leads to my conclusion that songs are not definitively learned, but are regularily "played to life" through the mastering of singing/dancing/painting/didjing techniques and their interconnections. Meaning that "one song" can never be replayed live again...

Hi Ahaw,

Interesting observations and comments. Every song, every performance is special in its own right, especially if done for a particular purpose, say, as part of a funeral, initiation or 'remembrance' ceremony. I think the didgeridoo component is perhaps the least difficult to master, or at least that's what my Aboriginal informants tell me. To sing, wow, that's another matter! Yolngu used to tell me in Ramingining that the thing that would surprise them most, shock them in fact, is to hear a Balanda sing at ceremony. They reckon it is impossible.

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[ididjaustralia]

Josh Staley wrote:

I believe I have seen videos of Bunggul players imitating the style of Western Arnhem land players, not seriously but just for fun. It doesn't seem that Darryl would agree with that.

Hey Josh, good to see you on the Forum! With the above, I think it is not so much that Darryl would disagree with NEAL players imitating WAL style. It is about the fear that Aboriginal people have in the Top End when it comes to intellectual property and cultural heritage of things that they do not have rights to. It can get serious if there are noticeable breaches in the 'Law', with payback and all that stuff.

With Darryl's comments on YouTube, he seems to be saying that he does not want to attract attention, gossip or criticism from NEAL groups if he were to start playing Bunggul (overtone-present) style. The disparity here would appear to be that some Aboriginal people think that a particular playing style belongs exclusively to certain groups, whereas other Aboriginal people might be more relaxed about it.

Josh Staley wrote:

I wonder if it would be better to start working from a position of what will happen rather than what the people of Arnhem land think should happen. For instance, the idea that white people can't teach didgeridoo, I can respect that view-point, but it seems unrealistic in practicality.

Yup, agree with you there Josh. I'm not sure what practical things can be done though. Darryl's feelings about didgeridoo teachers, when I clarified his statements with him, was that he wants to continue to teach and to tour. If all of a sudden that was no longer possible because there were too many Balanda teachers edging him out of the picture, that is what he is afraid of. So it is an economic thing more than anything else.

Guan

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[ididjaustralia]

Darth Ak-sar-ben wrote:

Aboriginal man make a didgeridoo and plays it. It is used in their ceremonies and rituals. It is unique to their culture for their use, but the actual instrument is not. How can one be called a custodian of an instrument?

Hi Vern,

Good question, and one best left to experts in intellectual property! We could talk about many examples of musical instruments that should or should not be protected from commercial exploitation by others. We could do the same thing with food, and many other things. What's your take on the use of the name "Champagne" for white sparking wines?

Guan

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[Darth Ak-sar-ben]

ididjaustralia wrote:

Yup, agree with you there Josh. I'm not sure what practical things can be done though. Darryl's feelings about didgeridoo teachers, when I clarified his statements with him, was that he wants to continue to teach and to tour. If all of a sudden that was no longer possible because there were too many Balanda teachers edging him out of the picture, that is what he is afraid of. So it is an economic thing more than anything else. Guan

I sincerely believe that Darryl will ALWAYS be sourced (sought out) over any white Balanda teacher, simply because he is the Master. Tell him his instructional videos and CDs will always be in higher demand than those of white because of their significance to this style. For the general playing of a didgeridoo, there are plenty of CD and DVDs out there that address the general playing of the didgeridoo. When it comes to traditional styles, you, Guan, have done more to promote that than a lot of other people I have met and talked with or found on the internet.

I am not to say that all those Balanda (white) folks I have talked to are not of value. They each are contributors to my personal learning of this instrument. Jason, Ben, and others I owe a sincere thanks to for their patience and listening and examples either over the phone or by email and attachments. But, there are several of my didgeridoo playing friends that are not into traditional playing, and even though they have helped me and encouraged me along the way, they cannot teach me the WAL or NEAL styles as they are mostly contemporary players. I respect that in them that they are comfortable in their styles as well.

With Darryl saying that he doesn't want to arouse suspicion or distrust from those that play the Yidaki and it's type B style, I can understand. To those within a culture and group there is certain expectations that are not as critical as to someone on the outside. For Larry Winninni to play WAL style with the vamp would seem strange to not only his tribe and associates, but to the tribes and clan that Darryl is associated with ( this is my presumption on this only! ) Personally, I think it would be hard for Larry to play WAL style because so many years are trained to play with his mouth and throat in a certain position. I am not saying he cannot learn, but when you learn how to do something in a certain way over a long period of time that way becomes like second nature and to change would take a concerted effort.

Set Darryl up with a pay pal account and anyone that wishes to contribute, no matter how small, can do so. I have seen it before and listed kind of like a "tip jar" Simple to do, because once it's set up all you have to do is click on the logo and it takes you to the pay-pal site for leaving "something" for Darryl. How much you get is hard to say, but you will probably get more than 'nothing' which you get right now without it. If 1000 people saw his "you tube" lessons and found it to be just a bit valuable and left the small amount of $1.00 That will soon start to add up over time.

Darryl will always be sought out, along with Djalu and others because of their years of experience in this field, and because of their willingness to teach. Balanda will teach and continue to teach because there are getting to be so many of us "learning" . I wish Stradivarius had passed on his Alchemy formula that he used to treat the wood for his violins before he passed on. There would have been more exemplary violins if he had.

_________________
Cheers!
Vern

"You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

http://www.vernsdidj.com

[Darth Ak-sar-ben]

ididjaustralia wrote:

What's your take on the use of the name "Champagne" for white sparking wines? Guan

Now you're getting into my field I am a professional winemaker, and work as the Associate Winemaker in one of the largest wineries in Michigan.

Champagne can only be made in Champagne region of France. Bordeaux can only be made in Bordeaux region of France. Burgundy comes from the delimited region of Burgundy France.

In the US it has become taboo to name a sparkling wine "Champagne" to the point of the label not getting approval. We have to submit every new label, and any changes to and existing label to the TTB (part of our Government controlling alcohol and tobacco tax and regulations). It cannot say "Champagne" on the bottle. Similarly we cannot label a bottle "Bordeaux" wine anymore. Our winery belongs to an Association as a member called "Meritage Association" we are allowed to make up a blend of the grapes normally grown in Bordeaux, such as Merlot, Cabernet Franc, Cabernet Sauvignon, Malbec, et al (there are only a few) and in our blending of proportions we can call this new blend "Meritage" and give the association $1.00 for each gallon produced. The wines are quite similar in style to the Bordeaux wines of France, but we use our own 'Lake Michigan Shore' appellation that delimits the area to where the grapes are grown and resulting wine made. I.E. We cannot import Cabernet Sauvignon wine or grapes from California and use it in the resulting blend and still put on the label "Lake Michigan Shore" as the appellation. In the last example only American can be used in that regard.

We have made sparkling wines at the winery, and still do, in the "Methode' de Champagne " meaning the wine is finished dry, with resulting alcohol around 10.5 to 11% and undergoes a second fermentation with yeast, sugar and nutrient in the bottle. The resulting fermentation results in additional alcohol and carbon dioxide gas, which has nowhere to go, so becomes dissolved in solution - wine. Trick is to not get too little sugar as the resulting sparkling wine will be flat, and unattractive or too much sugar and risk exploding (DANGEROUS) bottles and wine that when un-stoppered foams out of the bottle uncontrollably.

We can make a wine blended in a "method" of the Bordeaux region but we cannot call it Bordeaux

We can make a sparkling wine in the "method" of Champagne region, but we cannot call it Champagne.

We can make an "Ice Wine" only if the grapes are picked frozen while still hanging on the vine. We cannot pick the grapes and artificially freeze them and then press the resulting grapes to get the high concentration of sugar. One of the reasons why Ice Wines are so expensive.

I can make a didgeridoo out of hollow raw eucalyptus log or wood, or "other" but it is a Vernon Jenewein, and not a Djalu Gurruwiwi or a Darryl Brown, or any other Aboriginal maker. It will always be a VJ made stick. It will not be sought after unless it has certain playing attributes that make it shine as a player, but it will never be sought out by collectors of AND that insist on only Aboriginal made and painted didgeridoos by certain clan and members. Djalu has shown Balanda how to make didgeridoos, and there are some exemplary sticks floating around out there made by John Madill, Ant Scott, Ben Hicks and other but they have pride in their work and are proud to show off their craft as their own, and not as made by someone else, by some other culture, just to get a better price.

_________________
Cheers!
Vern

"You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

http://www.vernsdidj.com